Beginner Cymbidium - when to repot?
 

Hi,

I wasn't sure whether to put this thread here in the beginner forum or on the cymbidium forum... move it if it needs to be!

I purchased my first cymbidium several months ago while it was still in bloom (can't remember when, during the winter in any case). It stopped blooming a few months ago so I cut the bloom spike about 1' above the base. It's been doing fine from what I can tell and even weathered the tips of its leaves being chomped on by my naughty great dane! :((

Anyways, so I have it sitting a few feet away form a south facing window which is always open so it gets a nice breeze and that room is also cooler. I water it when it has just about dried out.

My question is how do I tell if it needs to be repotted? It's not too big so it's not like it needs to be divided. I have done some reading on them but I don't know how to tell if the medium is broken down or not. Within the last few months it has been putting out lots of new leaves and I noticed when I watered yesterday the pot is starting to be mis-shapen because the roots are pressing on the pot, you can feel them pushing on it.

I have attached a few pics. Should I leave it for another year?

Thanks!http://www.orchidboard.com/community...m/IMG_4423.JPG

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...m/IMG_4424.JPG

That medium looks really broken down. I don't know much about these, but I would repot, because the medium isn't recognizable anymore.

It looks like a very happy, healthy plant though. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

I have no idea about your plant but as a fellow Great Dane owner I can sympathize...it's VERY difficult to put ANYTHING out of their reach :D

It IS Judith!! I don't know what got into Guinness he usually leaves my plants alone, but came home that day to see a bunch of the leaves all chomped. He didn't show any remorse either. Naturally one day later I came home to find the eaten leaves deposited on the floor LOL.

I moved the CYM behind the side table now and he hasn't gone near it - he's petrified of knocking things over so it's been safe there so far lol.

As far as the medium, it does look broken down that's why I wonder if I should repot? But it seems to be just very fine bark. It still drains well. And if I do need to repot how much bigger should I love it into?




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If it is trying to break the pot, it probably should be repotted.

Fortunately, Cyms aren't too fussy about media, and being semi-terrestrial, broken down media isn't too problematic for them.
BUT, since there's no way to know just how old the media is, I'd repot.

I'd go for a slightly bigger pot.

Cyms like a pretty good amount of light while they are growing (spring - summer) - I'd recommend putting it outside if at all possible.

Links to Cymbidium care here
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...d.php?p=636559

Hi Sonya,

I have read through the links posted on the Cymbidium alliance board and also read several of your posts (I was hoping you would reply to mine too, thank you! lol).

I do see that to leave them outside during the summer and into the fall up to before the first frost is perferrable. I am somewhat concerned about that because firstly my back deck and yard aread gets full sun. The deck area until about 3-4pm and the backyard even longer. And from what I've read it's good to have the cym in shade for the afternoon heat. It does get pretty hot here in the summers. So I'm not sure what to do about that since I don't have a location to put it where it will only get morning sun. Could I try moving it outside every morning? I will try to figure something out, but the afternoon sun is the stinger for me.

And secondly I just am worried at the idea of bugs etc when I go to bring it in in the fall lol.

Bug!!!! About the only thing that regularly attacks Cyms are scale and mites. The mites inhabit the pbulbs down in the sheaths and the scale attack randomly along the leaves. Other than that they are easy to grow successfully. I would repot this specimen. You can even use plain old garden potting soil if you want. These, as Sonya pointed out, are semi-terrestrial. They are grown in gardens here in SoCal through the coastal areas as far north as SF. I would be hesitant to put them out in full sun after 9-10 am and before 4-5 pm. Shade them some in the heat of the day. They will scorch. And that will affect the blooms in the winter/spring. They like to eat too. Just erect some shade cloth on sticks over the plant out in the yard. If you pot them in smallish, soil-like media water sparingly. The more coarse the media the more you can water. The roots resist rotting to a certain extent. HEY CYM LADY!!!!!!!!!! WHER ARE YA??!!!!!

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

Also, when you repot, don't mess with the roots. They hold a lot of the energy for the plant. They are huge as orchid roots go. I just wash the old media out of them with a hose and repot them as is. Just put them into another pot with about two inches of room around the root mass.

Ah - I see.

Morning sun (as much of it as possible) is ideal - but, I do have one Cym growing where it gets sun from late morning til late afternoon. It does grow there year-round, so it is used to it, and acclimates gradually to the stronger and longer sun, and higher temps. The usually constant breeze here may help :dunno: I do move it to shade during extreme heat (here, about 35C and higher), or when temps in spring jump significantly higher than it has been. I have at times, forgotten to move it, and folilage has gotten some burn, but the plant over-all has been ok.

You may also look for other places it can grow (most of my Cyms are out in front of my house, where they get sun all morning) - front or sides of house; a spot with several hours of dappled light ... A spot that gets sun part of the day, but shaded by house or a tree or something ...

Or inside, right up to a window that gets a whole lot of morning or afternoon sun; using supplemental grow lights ...

I have had a couple Cyms that bloomed in a less light (a little early morning AND a little in the evening sun), but still outside.

Also remember that most Cyms need a period of cool nights in late summer - fall to initiate spikes.

As for pests - I have only had issues with ants, aphids, snails while the plants are in bud or bloom (mine are always outside) - you could treat for these (and other unwanted critters) a bit ahead of bringing the plant inside.

I can't say personally, as I have always just had my Cyms outside, but I have read that it's generally difficult to get most to bloom if grown solely indoors without grow lights (or sunny solarium; green house window, or the like), a room where it can get the cool (< 13C) night temps in late summer-early fall.

If you do move it out into afternoon sun, do it before temps are getting high, and do so gradually. This time of year, I don't think a south facing window gets much (if any) direct sun (mine gets none this time of year; faces due south, small roof over-hang - but it will vary if there is a bit of east or west exposure, or no roof over-hang), so it will need to be started in a spot that gets just a little bit of sun, and then gradually moved into more.

Ok we'll my yard is very small. The deck is as big as my yard lol. Bigger than a postage stamp but not at all huge lol. I do however have an irrigation system set up, so theoretically if I were to use bark media mix because it is so coarse I could put the CYM into the irrigation system with a mister nozzle pointed at the medium? Then I'd have to rig up some sort of shade that would withstand the windy afternoons... I could place the CYM up next to my house, it would get sun there till about lunch and shade after that?

As for the pot I am assuming a good plastic pot or whatever as long as it has lots of drainage on the bottom correct? Thanks for clarifying the pot size.

So slugs etc don't bother with them much? The only real pests I contend with in my garden are slugs, snails and whatever the bugs are than eat the leaves -looks like someone cut them with scissors.


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Should finish... Those seems to only bother my hostas. I have two pots in the back with cannas and other perennials which don't seem to have any issues.


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Sonya your post didn't show up when I replied earlier.

Ok so I have a Dulles in a strata complex. So while I do have a small-ish garden that spans along the entire front if my duplex where I have free reign that actually gets even more sun lol. All day sun and into the evening until it sets. So the back deck is the only place. But I think I'll just move it outside by the house so it will be shaded by noon.

I do have allot of paver ants around here but I guess I will just have to watch them. Besides they go for the hummingbird feeders and my peonies first so should be fine.

Yes from what I've read I will need to have it outside, you guys are all confirming that for me. So will repot it sometime this week when I get a chance (ie time) and then set it outside. I have a small table by the BBQ right in front of my living room window, think I'll put it there to start. Will be protected and still get sun for mornings. Will see how that works. I can see my husband complaining that it is in the way while he grills lol. I will play around with it.


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Dulles ?.? iPad spell check strikes again. Duplex!


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I use a potting mix of fine and medium bark chip, throw in some perlite, or something of that nature (perlite, charcoal, pumice) - I also throw in some styro pnuts, but it's not necessary ;) I also use plastic pots with drain holes in the bottom - I just use the 1,2, and 3 gallon nursery pots. . . Cyms aren't very fussy about media, so long as it retains some moisture, and drains well (pots should also drain well).


I don't have large yards either, but do have options on all sides of the house.

I don't know about drip or mist irrigation - I just water mine with the hose or water can ... Potting mix should be kept from drying out completely.

That sounds very good!

I do get some snails, mostly when in bud or bloom, but do find the occasional one in them other times - outside of eating blooms, they don't seem to do damage much - I do use the iron oxide snail pellets (mostly in winter, when the rain brings the snails out a lot, and there are buds on the plants), but of course, that can be used any time. Personally, outside of the snails, aphids and ants on buds and blooms - I haven't had trouble with other pests, but different locales may have different experience - tho I have read that Cyms aren't prone to other pests much.

Id put them in a nice cement planter. But that is my own prefererence. Id make them a kind of centerpiece for the garden.

Slugs/snails will munch on tender new growth so watch out. Ants love to build nests in coarse media too.

We'll it's outside now, will have to reorganize the area to suit better. Not going to do her irrigation for the time being, just hand water. At least with it being on the deck by the window I can enjoy it from inside too! I'll pick up some fine bark mix and mix that with some medium I already have. It has clay pellets in it and perlite etc also.

The temps tonight are forecasted for 48F (9C). That will be ok I suppose since they are ok to stay out to just above freezing?


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Eww.... Yes will definitely watch it! I don't like bugs as you can probably tell. Give me a snake or frog or mouse anytime thank you!


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I decided to bring it in overnight. I'll set it back out in the mornings until the temps are around 15 or so overnight.


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Well I repotted it today. And I'm glad I did. Not sure what the medium was but it was almost like tiny little pellets. And the first thing I saw when I removed the old pot was a worm crawling out of the roots! I laid it down and patted it which seemed to remove the old medium pretty well. The low and behold another worm came crawling out!! So I kept turning and patting, there was some spag moss in the centre which I was able to mostly remove, the took a hose to remove what bits I could. I repotted using a small bark mix which has perlite, clay pellets, bark of course and small gravel like rocks in it. I could use a bit more but ran out, I have spag on its way so I think I'll just put a layer of fresh spag on top which will help to keep it from drying out too quickly.

Anyways as far as the roots went they looked really good I think! At least I didn't have any worries there.

Old medium:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...um/image67.jpg

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...um/image68.jpg

Roots before I hosed it off with the shower attachment:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...um/image66.jpg




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Cool!

I use the "jet" setting on my hose sprayer to help remove media ;)

Darn should have done that. I wasn't sure how delicate cymbidium roots are. I did get 99% of it removed though.


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I'm sure it's fine. As I said, Cyms aren't very fussy ;)

It's hard to do too much damage to Cyms ;) Besides using the jet setting, I whack the pot against a low brick wall, to help get the plant out of the pot; have been know to whack the root mass and media on the lawn; etc ...

Roots get damaged during repots, but usually it's not a problem for a healthy Cym. Following advice I got from a Cymbidium guru OB member - when repotting Cyms with huge root masses, I now cut off the bottom third of the mass - and it really does not slow the plants down at all - I think they like the abuse ;)

I love big thick roots! Well, maybe that sounds wrong, but give me an orchid with fabulous roots any day!

If you harden the plant carefully (outdoors, but only a few hours of morning or evening sun) for 8-10 days, you can move it into full sun thereafter.

It should be watered every couple of days while in full sun. Also, Cymb are greedy plants, you should give moderatedose of fertilizer every 3rd watering.

For.best flowering, Cymb should have pale yellow/green leaves. The odd sunburned spot on leaves does not harm the plant.

I leave mine outside till first frost, whether it snows or not.

Ha ha Optimist! I was surprised at how springy and strong the roots are!

Fairorchids, thanks for the info. I'm bringing it in at nights cause I think the low temps might be too much difference for what it is used to. But it's supposed to warm up Friday so might leave it out overnight starting then. Since it is in bark I think I may have to water frequently. I bought some liquid seaweed fert today so will alternate that with my regular fert every 3rd watering as you say. I have a feeling it will dry out quickly. Where I've been putting it it gets full sun starting 7am to 12-1pm. Has a nice breeze as well.


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Herein lies the problem by not repotting in a timely manner. The roots grow way beyond necessary. This should have been repotted two years ago when the roots could have been untangled and new media placed all around and within the roots. Now there will be empty pockets within the roots which will dry faster than the media. It's an age old problem we all face. Not to worry. Fill the voids as best you can before putting it into the pot and then fill all around the remainder. This is the very reason I repotted the cattleya I showed this weekend. To get folks thinking about repotting when it is appropriate so as not to do it too late when you may cause the plant some damage. Nice looking cym by the way.

Your Cym looks very healthy. I have 3 that I put outside last week and our temps have gone to 7 or 8Celcius a couple nights. No harm to the plant. I don't like it to get too cool in spring or it might get confused and try to start blooming right now. But I put them in those cheap wrought iron plant stands. They have 3 legs and are just for 1 pot. I've seen them at Walmart or HD etc. This way they are a foot or more off the ground and I usually don't have any bug problems. We don't get too many slugs on the prairies tho. I set mine against the wall of the garage facing south. So they get a lot more than morning sun. Just introduce slowly as someone mentioned. Mine do get some shade as there are some trees that block the sun for part of the day. But they get a fair bit of late afternoon sun also. They seem very hardy and I leave them out till just before it freezes. Then I keep them in the greenhouse for the winter which is heated to 65F in the day and 55F at night. They have bloomed faithfully for a few years now. By late summer one of them had spikes already the last 2 years.

I am a little concerned there are air pockets in the roots. I wasn't sure just how to get the medium in all the way but I did keep putting the finer medium on top of the crown and pushing it down through with my fingers and I also gave the pot a good shake and shimmy which settled quite a bit of the medium so hopefully the voids aren't too large.

I like the idea of a plant stand silken, I'll check out Walmart for a cheap one. At the moment it is sitting on top of the hot tub cover which isn't the best and I don't like that ants and whatever's can gain easy access.

I found a pic of what it's blooms look like, hopefully I'm successful in getting it to bloom again for this winter!
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...um/image70.jpg

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It's very nice. If it gets lots of sum and a good chill in fall, it will likely bloom. I think they need decent light in winter too.

I'll tell you what. I am a sculptor, but it does not require great artistic skills to make a cement planter. When my camera is fixed, I ought to do a demo on making cement pots.

I know in my area we get gusty winds so heavy cement pots would be great to keep things from being blown over! But they are expensive here.


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I dont put my orchids out at all! Unless it is very early spring, which in new orleans isnt very long. We have a very large black 'grasshopper' that is crunchy and nothing kills them after they get that big. Also by the time you find the babies the only thing you can do is stomp on them. So my cyms are in a south window. Got them last may as they were coming out of bloom and they havent bloomed since. I think my feeding is ok cause my catts bloomed in same area. Wish i knew how to post pics!

If they are the standard Cyms they do need a cool chill to initiate blooms. Would the grasshoppers be gone by fall that you could put it out then for a few weeks of cool temps?

Silken i thought that since the windowsill is cold that was enough. I will put them out as soon as i dont see the grasshoppers on steroids from hell, if you think that is what it needs. Thanks. How do you post a pic in a reply? You need to see this black thing!

I and many other Cym growers leave the Cyms out in the fall till close to freezing. So if your windowsill gets that cool, then it might be OK. But it likely doesn't. 1 of mine actually starts showing spikes well before that. But it does need to be reasonably cool.

To add a picture in a reply you can just click on the paper clip in the tools above the message box. You'll get a window to search for your photo and attach it.

Om so my CYM has been sitting outside since I repotted, I have only watered once. I checked the medium today and dug down a bit and noticed the medium is still damp which is ok. But what worries me is allot of it has this green mildew stuff growing on tuna few inches down around the roots! Now I'm concerned! I purchased the mix at a local nursery, should I repot? The mix seemed fine but now I'm thinking I should sterilize it somehow... What should I do? You can see in the pic there is one piece of bark that has this green stuff on it. :(
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...um/image71.jpg

From your photo, I would say the pot is somewhat larger than I would use for that plant. Over potting causes media to stay wet too long and results in root rot issues. I am also wondering if there are any side drainage/air holes or just something (hopefully) on the bottom? I prefer more than just a few bottom holes in a larger pot because there is so much media, it is hard to ever get dry. I would find a smaller pot with a few side holes as well as bottom holes. The pot should just nicely fit the root ball with a bit of room for extra growth of pseudo bulbs but not more than several years worth.

Actually there was only 1 1/2" from the root ball to the side of the pot. The root ball is fairly large. I didn't know you could cut them back. The next size pot down is basically the size it was in. As for drain holes it has several on the bottom. I wondered about side slits but I have never seen a larger pot with side venting and I've never seen a CYM with this either. I was going off of recommendations posted above in this thread and others.
My gut is telling me I should in pot it. But what to do next I have no idea. Maybe un pot and drill some holes in the sides? What should I do about the mix?


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Could be algae which isn't a worry.

Regarding the drainage of the pot, I pot Cyms in standard nursery pots (1, 2, 3 gallon pots) - I don't add any more holes, and have no issues.