Various Neos, 2017 in Review

[Shoreguy]

Originally Posted by Hakumin

He said that to make the hybrids, he chose a good Manjushage parent and a good colored flower parent and crossed them. Out of the offspring, the majority of them end up having white, single spurred flowers. Next in frequency are the colored flower single spurred plants. Next are the white three spurs which make up only 5-10% of the offspring, and finally only 0.1% of them bloom colored three spur flowers. Overall however, apparently only 1 or 2 out of 100,000 total seedlings will produce a nice dark color paired with three spurs and a good flower shape.

Does this apply to Neofinetia Mangekyo? Mine does have 3 pink spurs although I would not characterize the secondary spurs as being dark pink.

Barampung seems to have a number of them being offered over time, indicating higher percentages may be involved. Unless of course mericloning was done but I understand with neos that is frowned upon.

Another possibility is that he has built up a population of 3 pink spurred ones and is selling divisions. Considering that some of the offerings are single growth plants that don't appear to have ever flowered, that might be what is going on.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Does this apply to Neofinetia Mangekyo? Mine does have 3 pink spurs although I would not characterize the secondary spurs as being dark pink.

Growing conditions and fertilizer will affect the intensity of the pink. Cooler growing temperatures, higher light (especially UV), and certain types of fertilizers will help darken the color.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Barampung seems to have a number of them being offered over time, indicating higher percentages may be involved. Unless of course mericloning was done but I understand with neos that is frowned upon.

Mangekyo has never been mericloned, but they can be propagated by seed, both by selfing a Mangekyo and also by re-crossing its parents. Because of that there is some minor difference in shape and color between individuals. However, all plants that he sells as Mangekyo have been confirmed to have the correct flower characteristics.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Another possibility is that he has built up a population of 3 pink spurred ones and is selling divisions. Considering that some of the offerings are single growth plants that don't appear to have ever flowered, that might be what is going on.

Barampung never sells named plants that have not had its characteristics fully confirmed, including flowers. So any small growths that seem like they have never flowered are divisions of mature individuals that have flowered before in his care.

[Shoreguy]

Quote:
What does Koshi-fu mean wrt N Shingetsu?

Hakumins reply:

Koshifu 腰斑, is a type of tora-fu variegation where primarily the base of the leaf is variegated

Another question involving N Shingetsu:

Is the red base affected by the amount of light received? In particular will too much light result in it becoming darker to even maroon or brown?

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Is the red base affected by the amount of light received?

Yes, amount of light is one factor in the appearance of this variety. Other conditions like temperature also have equally big roles though.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

In particular will too much light result in it becoming darker to even maroon or brown?

No.

Firstly, anthocyanin pigment in neos is always red or pink. It only looks maroon, brown or black in most plants because of optical color mixing. The red anthocyanin color combines with the green chlorophyll color making it look maroon or brown.

When a neo is given too much light, the plant will often produce increased anthocyanin pigmentation in an effort to protect itself from the excess light. However, the amount of chlorophyll in the leaves also decreases, reducing the saturation of green. This actually makes the anthocyanin pigmentation look redder rather than browner, though at such high light levels, the plant will generally take on a sickly appearance overall.

In Shingetsu, increased light often will increase the yellowness of the koshi-fu, causing the anthocyanin pigmentation to show its red color more clearly without interference from the green chlorophyll, making the stem look redder.

Simply giving it excessive light to encourage this is a good way to kill the plant though. The overall conditions need to be properly balanced get the best appearance paired with the best health.

[Shoreguy]

Thank you Hakumin for your detailed answer to my question. It is very helpful.

---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 PM ----------

Does your answer also apply to Neof Izumibotan?

I suspect yes.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Does your answer also apply to Neof Izumibotan?

Izumibotan doesn't produce anthocyanins as readily as Shingetsu does. If one shows significant red pigmentation beyond just the very base of the stem, it's getting far more light than appropriate for the variety.

[Dusty Ol' Man]

First of all, thank you for taking the time to post these lovely specimens. I am becoming fascinated by neos lately. In partiular, I am interested in the growing conditions for success with shingetsu. I live in the sub-tropical gulf coast of Louisiana and most of what few orchids I have live on the patio from spring to late fall. When the temps drop into the low 50s they come into the house.
My question is, what conditions do you provide for these beautiful plants? And do you have any pictures of shingetsu in bloom?

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

My question is, what conditions do you provide for these beautiful plants?

I grow indoors under T5HO lights, timer is set so that they turn on at sunrise and turn off at sunset. Humidity levels range from about 40%-60% depending on the time of the year. Temperatures are about 65F-80F depending on the time of the year. Thorough soaking in the shower when the moss is dry on the inside and outside, which for me ends up being about once every 5-6 days. Low speed fan running 24/7 over the plants.

Originally Posted by Dusty Ol' Man

And do you have any pictures of shingetsu in bloom?

The variety gets standard shaped white flowers. Mine hasn't bloomed yet so I don't have photos of my own, and because the variety isn't grown for its flowers, I'm having a hard time finding photos of its flowers online.

It's one of those varieties that dedicated growers in Japan and Korea wouldn't think twice about cutting off spike starts to preserve the appearance of the stem area and encourage more vegetative growth.

[Shoreguy]

I have often wondered about cutting off flower spikes to promote vegetative growth.

Is it possible the strategy could backfire since if the plant is forming a spike, that is what it desires, and cutting it off could encourage it to initiate another spike causing additional expenditure of resources thereby inhibiting foliage growth?

This issue might not be clear cut. Pun not intended.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Is it possible the strategy could backfire since if the plant is forming a spike, that is what it desires, and cutting it off could encourage it to initiate another spike causing additional expenditure of resources thereby inhibiting foliage growth?

It's very common practice among dedicated Neo growers in Japan and Korea. The experienced growers and breeders that I've talked to about it have all indicated that it has no negatives to the plant as long as you use clean tools.

I have cut off a few spikes and spike buds myself, and personally, I have not seen the plant try to push out additional buds afterwards. I don't do it to the extent many of the growers in Japan and Korea do though, so I can't speak from much experience.

As for how much of a vegetative benefit it might give, I'd rather not take a guess without some published research backing it up.