NF 'Koto' x 'Shu-Ten-Nou' (& reciprocal)

[Fairorchids]

This seedling population has sorta flooded the market over the past 18-24 months. I have seen them offered by both Hawaiian nurseries, and assorted resellers.

I know where they come from (Taiwan), as I found this cross offered in the monthly flask list distributed by one of the major Taiwanese sources.

I have also seen photos of several of the first to bloom. These are all showing flowers with surprisingly deep (dark) colors.

• 'Shu-Ten-Nou' is a well known NF.
• I can find no records of 'Koto'.
• It is generally accepted, that NF 'Yellow' (with strong saturated color) is a hybrid and not a true NF. This also applies to some of the greens by the way.

Being the suspicious old bastard that I am, based on these isolated facts, I strongly suspect that this population with the unknown 'Koto' are not true NFs.

For the record, I have both 'Yellow' and 'Koto' x Shu-Ten-Nou. I have not bloomed the latter yet.

I now invite the orchidboard readers to comment.

[AnonYMouse]

Might have found something but I used online translators and what not. I think this is called "Koto", the kanji (古都) is read as, "ancient city".

Might want to wait around for someone who actually can read the Japanese, though.

[Marco]

I always associated koto with the variegated form with white flowers. When i first saw this cross offered, my first thought was pink flower form crossed with white flower variegated form.

https://newworldorchids.com/shop/koto-fukurin/

https://www.orchidweb.com/products/n...rin-~1637.html

Neofinetia falcata (Shutennou x Koto) x sib - Slippertalk Orchid Forum- The best slipper orchid forum for paph, phrag and other lady slipper orchid discussion!

Although, i could be entirely wrong and there maybe another koto out there? Or maybe this is the beginnings for neos flooding walmart and trader joes similar to what happened to hybridized phals years ago?

[RobinDavis]

I would like to know the major Taiwanese source. I am interested in flasks.

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by RobinDavis

I would like to know the major Taiwanese source. I am interested in flasks.

I got copies of a price list through a commercial orchid nursery back in 2013 & 2014. I did not keep them, but will try to get the name for you.

In the meantime, if you go to the Orchidmall, and click on:
Orchid Plant Sources
Taiwan
Formosa Orchids
English
Miscellaneous
Species

and then scroll down, you will find numerous NF crosses.

I don't know whether you need an import license for flasks.
It is expensive to import just one or two. If you decide to go ahead, I might want to take a few flasks in a joint shipment.
I should add, the one time I ordered flasks from Thailand on Ebay, they came in with agar removed, and seedlings in a jumbled bruised & rotten mess. I got less than 15 plants out of 4 flasks.

---------- Post added at 06:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 AM ----------

Originally Posted by AnonYMouse

Might have found something but I used online translators and what not. I think this is called "Koto", the kanji (古都) is read as, "ancient city".

Might want to wait around for someone who actually can read the Japanese, though.

I found the 'Koto' designation as part of name for a variegated plant. However, this cross only uses 'Koto', and it is being promoted for colored flowers (pink or red). I bought one, but have not flowered it yet. However, I am seeing photos on Ebay now, which I simply do not believe.

[ramp]

In my research over time, I found that there are 2 Neofinetia varieties called "Koto"; one a true variegated variety and the second a hybrid Neo. The last one is being used to make the Shutenno cross, and then there is of course Koto Fukurin.
Also, when a fukurin is being used in crosses, the variegation does not breed trough.

Descriptions:

Kotō 古都
Korean name: Godo
Leaf color/markings; FUKURIN > marginal striping
Leaf form; NAMI-BA > Normal
Leaf shape; Standard
Tsuke; NAMI-GATA > Ocean wave
Jiku (stem); KOIDORO-JIKU > Dark mud-brown
Root tips; DORO-NE > mud brown
Flower color; White
Flower shape; Standard
Remarks; Fukurin, with red tiger markings on leaf tips when kept in high light.
Picture link

Kotō 古都 2
Hybrid Neofinetia with deep pink-purple flowers, large growths, leaves somewhat sickle shaped.
Picture link, plant owned by Carol H. Beule, USA.

Kotō Fukurin 湖東覆輪
Korean name: Hodongbokryun
Origin; Japan, Shiga prefecture
Leaf color/markings FUKURIN > marginal striping
Leaf form; NAMI-BA > Normal
Leaf shape; Standard, 4-5" - 10-12,5 m
Tsuke; TSUKI-GATA > Crescent moon
Jiku (stem); KOIDORO-JIKU > Dark mud-brown
Flower color; DORO-NE > golden brown to mud brown
Flower color; White
Flower shape; Standard
Remarks; Light yellow-white stripes with red blush in places, Flowers sometimes with a little pink.
Picture link

Hope this helps a bit.

[Fairorchids]

This confirms my suspicions about the 'NFs' being offered now. And, this is going to be a problem in the future, as there will be people breeding with these 'not true NFs'.

I will have to find my plant and mark it accordingly.

Thanks.

[ramp]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

This confirms my suspicions about the 'NFs' being offered now. And, this is going to be a problem in the future, as there will be people breeding with these 'not true NFs'.
Thanks.

Kim, there"s a lot of breeding of new varieties going on in Asia, as well as in the West.
As a guideline you can assume that all dark purple and yellow-orange varieties are hybrids, mostly crossed back to Neofinetia. As a rule, in Japan, no known hybrids are registered there. And further more, for the yellow flowered varieties there is only 1 registered in Japan and it's; Zuiun 瑞雲, the only natural yellow Neo that is a soft tiger variegated variety with creme-yellow flowers that deepen to more yellow with age, this is the deepest yellow a Neofinetia flower naturally can get. and one of my favorites.
However there is nothing wrong with keeping and breeding with these hybrid varieties as they are often very showy when in bloom. As long as the parentage is being kept track of, there is no problem I think but they should be listed as a hybrid and not a variety in my eyes.

[vjo]

I would also go in on a shipment if anyone decides to do that.
Please let me know...Jean

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by ramp

Kim, there"s a lot of breeding of new varieties going on in Asia, as well as in the West.
As a guideline you can assume that all dark purple and yellow-orange varieties are hybrids, mostly crossed back to Neofinetia. As a rule, in Japan, no known hybrids are registered there. And further more, for the yellow flowered varieties there is only 1 registered in Japan and it's; Zuiun 瑞雲, the only natural yellow Neo that is a soft tiger variegated variety with creme-yellow flowers that deepen to more yellow with age, this is the deepest yellow a Neofinetia flower naturally can get. and one of my favorites.
However there is nothing wrong with keeping and breeding with these hybrid varieties as they are often very showy when in bloom. As long as the parentage is being kept track of, there is no problem I think but they should be listed as a hybrid and not a variety in my eyes.

I agree with you, up to a point.

The primary problem is, that reputable growers (nurseries & resellers) have been selling these as pure Neofinetia falcata for the last 18 months or more.

The secondary problem is, that we don't know what 'Koto' really is. As a hobby hybridizer, that makes the plant useless to me. I won't use a plant for breeding, unless I am 100% certain of the parentage.