Amino Acids ( for seed growth)

[Aki_James]

I just have a question regarding amino acids. I have some Cypripedium parviflorum var. pubescens and Calypso bulbosa var Americana. seeds from my own plants, as well as I ordered some Cypripedium parviflorum and Cypripedium acaule seeds from a Canadian vendor.

I have put my own seeds through the cold stratification and the others came pre stratified(sp?). I have my own medium from where my wild and spreading colonies of plants grow in the back yard-ish area, as well as the seeds came with a humus mix which is suppose to have the correct Fungal hyphae to create the mycorrhizal symbiosis (although I trust my own mix more). I have not sterilized the seed yet as I will not do this until sowing.

The very specific instructions from the vendor of the seeds says to saturate the medium with "amino acids"(available at most health food stores) in a water dilution after sowing.

The only amino acids I can find at health food stores are in capsule form, do they really mean for me to crack capsules to get the oils out?...I know there are several amino acids and that it is a class of minerals and elements. But does anyone have any experience with this? I'm not sure what amino acids I should use.

I would like to try to propagate from seed without going to flasking first, I know the odds are better from flasking especially with Cypripedium acaule..But the whole thing seems too high tech for me...LOL

Any help with regards to amino acids or perhaps a product that is specifically used for plants would be appreciated.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

I'm not exactly sure why you'd want to put amino acids into a humus mix. Most kinds of organic soils when it is exposed to a non-sterile environment will eventually contain microbes that will, over time, break down the amino acids. This is especially true of humus. What makes humus what it is, is due largely in part to the microbes in it (i.e. bacteria, fungi).

It makes more sense to use amino acids as additives in a sterile media used for micropropagation, whether it is via the symbiotic or asymbiotic method.

The symbiotic method of sowing orchid seeds in-vitro usually has additional protocols to isolate the possible mycorrhizal fungi that can germinate the orchid seeds.

My opinion is that you could be wasting your money by getting amino acids and putting it in humus.

[Aki_James]

I'm not 100% sure why you would need the amino acids myself..I am by no means an expert hardly a novice at this stuff..My only guess is that perhaps its to encourage the growth of beneficial fungi which could in turn increase the germination and success rate of the seeds?...or perhaps the vendor assumes that the grower will be using a sterile medium without beneficials already in it so therefore again the amino acids + the humus with fungi is to help aid in the growth of beneficials?...whoa I'm dizzy.....my head kinda hurts now..lol.

[DavidCampen]

From what I have been able to find on the internet, it seems that while orchid roots/seedlings to have the ability to take up amino acids and utilize them as a source of nitrogen, amino acids are no better a nitrogen source than nitrate.

OTOH, from my experience; I use ammonium aspartate (aspartic acid is an amino acid) in my nutrient formulations. Initially, my motivation for using ammonium aspartate was as a chelating agent for calcium, magnesium and trace elements instead of chelating agents like EDTA that are normally used in commercial formulations.

My observation has been that using nutrient formulations that contain ammonium aspartate cause roots to thicken and branch much like the effect that people ascribe to using kelp extract supplements.

In my searches on the internet I found at least one paper that described glutamic acid (another amino acid) as producing this branching effect.

In the US I can purchase pure, bulk amino acids as health food/body building supplements. I prepare a solution of ammonium aspartate from this using ammonium carbonate as the ammonia source. Ammonium carbonate is available as Baker's Ammonia.

I am using ammonium aspartate in my nutrient formulations
to yield about 0.15 gram of ammonium aspartate per liter of ready-to-use nutrient solution.

[isurus79]

Look at those roots!! So you use both of those products in your mix? How often do you use them on the plants?

[DavidCampen]

I combine equimolar quantities of aspartic acid and ammonium carbonate to produce the ammonium aspartate that I use in my formulations. I dissolve the ammonium carbonate in water and then slowly add the equimolar amount of aspartic acid; carbon dioxide is evolved resulting in a solution of ammonium aspartate.

The last formulation that I used is given here:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...tml#post541002
Those amounts are to make 2 liters of concentrate that I then add to my RO water, using a chemical injection pump, at the rate of about 1:100 every time I water (thus the 2 liters of concentrate produces about 200 liters of watering solution).

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by DavidCampen

I combine equimolar quantities of aspartic acid and ammonium carbonate to produce the ammonium aspartate that I use in my formulations. I dissolve the ammonium carbonate in water and then slowly add the equimolar amount of aspartic acid; carbon dioxide is evolved resulting in a solution of ammonium aspartate.
...

I mispoke, I use 1/2 mole of ammonium carbonate per mole of aspartic acid. This gives me 1 mole of ammonia per mole of aspartic acid. But actually, ammonium carbonate has an imprecise composition; I assume the Baker's Ammonia to be 31% ammonia, so for 100 grams of aspartic acid I use 41 grams of Baker's Ammonia to give 113 grams of ammonium aspartate.