How do you choose your crosses? - Orchid Board

shadytrake · #1 09-13-2010, 02:53 PM

Just wondering as I sit here nursing a cold today...what do you look for when choosing to make your crosses?

Are you going for 2 award winners to cross?
Are you going for a color variation?
Are you going for "bettering" an orchid?

Do you ever take a "so so" bloom from a hardy orchid and try to improve it?

The reason I ask is that I was fooling around with some ideas and both my Brassia 'Rex Sakata' and my Epy. x Brs. bloomed at the same time. Now the Epy. x Brs. cross is this petite orchid with a peachy/orange bloom and the Brs. 'Rex Sakata' is a nice big flower with good coloring.

I took the pollen from 'Rex' and pollinated the Epy x Brs. If all goes well, I was thinking the 'Rex' might give some interesting color markings to the peachy bloom.

I also took the pollen from one of the Epy x Brs flowers and pollinated 'Rex' but I don't think it took.

What do you think I might expect from this cross?

SOS · #2 09-13-2010, 03:13 PM

Unfortunately youre not going to get anything. An Epy (Epicyclia?) x Brs (Brassavola? the abbreviation should be B. which might have een confusing in thinking the brassia and that have the same abbreviate form and would be compatible) will not pollinate an Oncidinae.

Royal · #3 09-13-2010, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadytrake

Just wondering as I sit here nursing a cold today...what do you look for when choosing to make your crosses?

Are you going for 2 award winners to cross?
Are you going for a color variation?
Are you going for "bettering" an orchid?

Do you ever take a "so so" bloom from a hardy orchid and try to improve it?

Hey Melissa,

These are good questions, but I can't answer all of them - only you can. Some of the best hybridizing advice I have been given (and I am still working on myself) is to set breeding goals and work towards these goals in each cross you make. Some crosses may be speculative (just to see what happens), but you can have a good idea of what to expect once you research how certain plants breed.

I'd say my goal is always to get "better" offspring than their parents, but "better" is subjective. If you're breeding for fragrance or color, size may not matter to you as much. If breeding for size, fragrance may not even considered. Hardiness can be an important trait as can, flower size, plant size, flower spacing, vigor, etc. Once you find a focus or direction, you'll have a better idea of what to use to get where you want to go. You may even have a multi-generational approach, creating plants to use as an intermediate step to the final goal. It all depends on what you love.

shadytrake · #4 09-13-2010, 03:33 PM

Oh crap...that is what you get when you do stuff when you are sick.

I mistakenly thought my Epy x B. nodosa cross was a Brassia (duh). Oh well...I just shortened the bloom life this bloom cycle.

At least it doesn't harm the plant.

shadytrake · #5 09-13-2010, 03:42 PM

Thanks Royal. I just wasn't too pleased with the peachy bloom on the Epy x B. It has an unremarkable bloom and if you rub the petals, they have a faint melon scent.

However, the plant is nice and compact and easy to grow. It popped 6 blooms on its first blooming cycle which is awesome! It is hardy against bugs.

I think it has potential to create something better than itself. I'll have to think on it some more.

Any ideas as to a color improvement or adding a scent?

Royal · #6 09-13-2010, 03:51 PM

If the bloom is unremarkable, maybe you should think twice about breeding with it. Sorry if that sounds rough, but that's kind of what I mean about having a goal. There may be other more colorful or fragrant hybrids out there that do have a remarkable flower.

Creating something better than itself may not work out so well. The term GIGO comes to mind.

johnblagg · #7 09-13-2010, 07:56 PM

never rule out that it may work ...the you cant cross this with that one has been proven wrong many times by someone just going for it anyways ....last summer the first hardy blue water lily was created by crossing a hardy with a tropical and this has been thought impossible for many many years .....some times it just happens to work the plants dont care what anyone said and sometimes a gene mutated in pollen or egg or chromosome number got changed by something and bang the impossible is now in fact accomplished.

SOS · #8 09-14-2010, 02:55 AM

There is no hurt in trying, thats true, but you're not going to make a Masdapedium (Masdavallia whirly gig X Paphiopedium sanderianum) anytime soon.

Even hybrids within their own tribes have hurdles. Short of being autogamous, we're out of luck.

johnblagg · #9 09-14-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOS

There is no hurt in trying, thats true, but you're not going to make a Masdapedium (Masdavallia whirly gig X Paphiopedium sanderianum) anytime soon.

Even hybrids within their own tribes have hurdles. Short of being autogamous, we're out of luck.

probably not but some times a cross is attempted for many many years and fails then suddenly for some reason it takes ....the genetic shuffle that takes place to create a new seedling means every new plant from seed is a possibility of things changing just that little bit that was needed to work.And indeed the very process that creates pollen can shuffle genes somewhat also.

There once decades ago exisisted a cabbages and radish cross that they have never managed to do again since......