Seedling medium

[Des]

That looks great Undergrounder, wish we could get perlite here!

[Des]

Also as i mentioned because the water wicks water extremely well, i always water from below, and never get leaves wet. In all my clone flasks i have close to, if not 100% survival rate. The occasional death is almost always from crown rot due to pseudomonas attack in poor growing seedlings. Root rot is never a problem, leaf spot is never a problem. If i could get Captan or Physan i probably would use it in the water though. I just haven't found a good alternative here in Aus.

P.S. Des i recently tested a pot of deflasked Cym clones in pure perlite, they busted out great with 100% survival. The only problem was after they outgrew their pot i put them in 100% CHC outside and they slowed down a lot, although i treat them as garden plants outside they get very little help.[/QUOTE]

Undergrounder I also stand Cymbidium seedlings in water It works very well for me I rarely lose a plant.
My brother who lives in Melbourne uses a product called Hisen or hysen not sure of the spelling to sreilize his seedlings , I use H2O2. I wonder if your Cym seedings growth slowed down in the CHC due to Nitrogen drawdown ?

[Pamela52]

Underg..... WOW I am impressed!!! I see perlite used alot, with good results, but yours are great. Do you use anything to wick the water. or does the perlite draw in the right amount? How often do you add water to the pan? I just potted 30 phals, 5 mo. old seedlings into a mix half perlite and half chopped Sphag. moss. Lots of air flow, so far so good. I used sterile surroundings. Pam

[Undergrounder]

Des i haven't heard of hisen/hysen but i'll keep a look out for similar sounding names when i look over a few products. I actually think i need a bacteriacide more than a fungacide, because fungi can't grow in water can they? Certainly i've never had a root rot in water.

My theory is that roots that grow into water don't develop velamen like normal 'dry' roots. You can see how bright green and smooth these kinds of roots are, as if they are one entire 'growing tip'. As a result they are better able to absorb O from the H2O and don't need air for their oxygen needs. It might be just that they are getting oxygen from the air in roots that are above the water line, or it might be that the occasional algal growth in the reservoir oxygenates the water. Whatever it is, my Phals respond well to it, and because flasklings are basically born swimming in a wet jelly, they adapt very well into damp perlite.

I had to look up "nutrient drawdown" but yes it could be that, or it could be that i never fertilise them and all they get is "the hose" twice a week. I really don't look after my non-Phal orchids very well once they go outside..

Pamela coarse perlite just wicks the 'right' amount of water no matter what you do. The really small grainy half crushed stuff you can get might wick too much water, but the coarse stuff (the size of peas or large thick grains of rice) is just right.

I refill the 'saucer' (i use a large reservoir for a large batch of seedlings) whenever it's looking low, or failing that, whenever it runs out. Ideally you don't want the reservoir to go dry, you keep it constantly wet.

Edit: I added some new pics (the previous ones were about 3 months old). I was blown away to see how much root growth these things have pushed out completely underwater... The first two pics are of a root that escaped and grew into the reservoir. You can see what i mean about the lack of velamen. The next pic you can see roots growing under the water line. The following pics you can see all the new roots growth busting out underwater (and translating into leaf growth). These plants were deflasked about 6 months ago.

[jaxorchidman]

AMAZING UG!!!!! It's pretty much the concept of S/H. I think I'm going to duplicate the same conditions. I just ordered super coarse perlite and some physan 20. Thanks for all the pics and info. I just want to make all the conditions the best I can for my new babies!!! I'm getting excited. I'll start a new thread when it gets underway. What size pots are those and do you make the extra holes in them or do they come like that??

[Des]

Originally Posted by jaxorchidman

AMAZING UG!!!!! It's pretty much the concept of S/H. I think I'm going to duplicate the same conditions. I just ordered super coarse perlite and some physan 20. Thanks for all the pics and info. I just want to make all the conditions the best I can for my new babies!!! I'm getting excited. I'll start a new thread when it gets underway. What size pots are those and do you make the extra holes in them or do they come like that??

I make extra holes in my pots useing a tapered drill bit they have them at Bunnings There are three in the set and are really good for making holes in plastics and sheet metal

[Undergrounder]

Yep it's just S/H with perlite instead of LECA, and with a communal reservoir instead of single pots for ease of watering. I happily keep close to a thousand plants using this method and i spend about 10 mins each week watering, just filling up the reservoirs.

Keep in mind shared water systems are -supposedly- a good way to share virus and bacterial infection. I've never had either problem and you should do better with the physan anyway. But to be sure, i would not introduce older plants, or plants you haven't raised from flask yourself into the system just in case you import a nasty pseudomona or virus. In theory it's possible. Frankly i think the danger is overstated but i wouldn't cut corners.

I use those 50mm square seedling pots because i deflask them individually so i can move them about easier and don't need to repot as quickly. But you could use a larger compot with the same idea, or even a flat seedling tray for even larger scale. Size of pot isn't really important. If you use a pot with large holes, put some fly screen mesh in the bottom to stop the perlite seeping out. Make sure you wash the perlite before use as well to wash out the powder.

Sadly yes i do spend about half an hour every time i deflask in front of the stove with a hot nail and a pair of pliers poking new holes in the pots. I don't think this is absolutely necessary, but a little injection of air right into the heart of the pot can only do the roots good, especially considering the bottom of the pot is sealed off from the air because it's in water.

As you can see i use one and then two T8 fluorescents to grow them under.

Picture of the system on the back wall of my basement:

[Des]

Undergrounder ,WOW!!! I thought I was doing well growing in water but yours are doing even better !!
The Hysen is both a bactericide and fungicide . I think it is the Australian equivalent of Physan 20.
I have been growing in water for about 9-years now and have yet to see roots rot in water. My water is aerated and I fertilized to 600 Micro siemens ,Cymbidiums are gross feeders Try feeding them and you will surprised at the results
Regards
Des

[Des]

Originally Posted by Undergrounder

As you can see i use one and then two T8 fluorescents to grow them under.

Picture of the system on the back wall of my basement:

That is a really good setup Undergrounder, are you commercial?
I used to use a soldering iron to poke extra holes in my pots until I got some of the smoke in my eyes ,I suffered for days and was told that the smoke is very toxic !!So I now use the tapered drill from Bunnings. I really wish we had Bunnings in SA !!!

[Undergrounder]

Aerated water? interesting how do you do that? Is it a proper aeroponic system? Soldering iron now that's an idea, i can't stand the heat of the gas stove that i use to heat the nail. The rising heat does draw the smoke away from my face though, and yeah the stuff does look and smell pretty toxic.

Thanks Des but no i'm not really commercial, i grow mostly for myself and sell off seedlings occasionally to fund my orchid habit. I do find myself getting more and more so i probably will sell more in the future though, i get a lot of stuff from overseas. The system is born more out of a need to minimise time spent caring for the orchids, and to create a system that lets me go on holiday without having to worry about them. The top shelves are actually serviced by "autopots" that are gravity fed by a small tank outside. It makes the watering of the top shelves completely automatic, as the water is refilled to keep a consistent level a bit like a livestock water trough. One day i will put an autopot in each tray to automate the whole system. The autopots have a minimum level of about 1 inch though, which for 50mm pots is fairly high.

Larger plants i still have in individual S/H containers because those are more likely to be afflicted by virus that i don't want spreading. But i was thinking of putting in a watering system on a timer for those. At any rate i still only need to tend them once a week as the reservoirs stay hydrated for about a week, and the perlite stays wet up to two weeks