Keiki - Should I take action?

[DaytripperEleanor]

Hi! I am a relative beginner orchid grower, and I have never had a keiki before. My phalaenopsis started growing the keiki seen in the attached pictures perhaps in January or February this year. I know it has had the keiki at least since mid March this year, which is when I started actually logging data about my orchids in attempts to become a better orchid carer.

I recently watched a youtube video about how if your orchid's new leaf growth is much smaller than its past ones, that indicates the orchid is using up its energy somewhere else in the plant. The newest leaf you see in the attached pictures came after the keiki, and as you can see it is much smaller.

I have been waiting for the keiki to sprout roots before I remove it. But it has been quite a few months now, and I am concerned that the orchid's growth will be stunned or it won't bloom if it continues to support the keiki. From my novice eyes, the orchid itself looks like it is in pretty ok shape at the time, but I would like to try to grow a spike sometime in the future.

Any advice? Thanks for your time!

[DrDawn]

Hi! Welcome to OrchidBoard!

That looks like a pretty happy Phal! I'm glad you started tracking growth, that will be helpful as you become more experienced.

To your questions, some Phals are just more prone to keikis than others. Without roots, your current keiki can't survive on its own. I'm not convinced by the argument about the new leaf, that leaf still looks quite bright and young. How long has it been this size? Leaves can take months to grow to full size, so I wouldn't judge the health of the plant based on that new leaf. The best way to judge the health of an orchid is to look at its roots! How are your orchid's roots? It looks like you have it in a pot with lots of air holes, which is good, but the media looks very wet. When did you last repot it? What condition were the roots in? (Any chance you took any pics?)

Feel free to keep asking questions! We're a friendly bunch! :-)

[Roberta]

I think that is actually a new basal growth, rather than a keiki. It is an integral part of the plant - sharing the same root system. So don't even think of trying to separate it, that would likely kill both the new growth and the original one. When I think of a "keiki" on a Phal, it's a new plant that grows on the node of a spike, usually one where the flowers are done. Then it develops its own root system and can be removed and potted up once the new roots (in the air) are 2-3 inches long. But here, you are seeing another way that Phals propagate. The growth point (crown) of the original growth may have stopped growing, and so the plant did this. It gets its energy from the root system of the original growth. If you get lucky, it can even bloom from both... putting on an even better show.

[neophyte]

Roberta, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the keiki is attached to a spike by a node that just happens to be pretty low.

DaytripperEleanor -- having an extra keiki isn't always that bad, and since the keiki can also bloom, this can put on a more interesting show. I think a more urgent issue would be the potting medium – it seems that the plant is in need of a re-pot into sphag or larger grade bark (in which case you will need to water more). If the potting medium is causing the roots to rot, this may be the cause of the plant's producing a keiki.

[Roberta]

Ok... didn't see that it might have been on a spike. I'd still suggest that unless it has a lot of roots that are definitely not part of the mother plant it shouldn't be separated. But even if it could be separate, I lean toward keeping everything together anyhow - a big plant puts on a better show than two small ones. I totally agree that repotting would be a really good idea... first to see what is going on with the roots, and second to provide an environment for new roots if it is bad or to keep roots healthy if it is still OK.

[estación seca]

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

1 That leaf is not finished growing.
2 Offsets, keikiis and old living flower spikes are not drains on the parent plant. They too photosynthesize and produce food from light and water. Leave them as long as you can.
3 Don't separate an offset or keikii until you think you can keep something that small alive, or the parent plant/spike dies.
4 Phals in habitat clump when happy. It is normal and good.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by DaytripperEleanor

I have been waiting for the keiki to sprout roots before I remove it. But it has been quite a few months now, and I am concerned that the orchid's growth will be stunned or it won't bloom if it continues to support the keiki.

Orchids grow relatively slowly compared to say many kinds of bamboo plants, or banana palms etc.

The only times when we should become concerned are when the orchid has a downturn in health. I won't mention what sorts of issues - as your orchid is obviously healthy, and has no apparent issue with it. It is just growing.

If the orchid is growing in one way or another - such as a keiki's leaves and/or its own leaves getting larger, and roots keep growing ----- then no need for concern.

[DaytripperEleanor]

Oh my goodness everyone, thank you for all the helpful replies!! I am glad to hear the Keiki is just a little buddy that can hang around and is most likely not hurting the original Phal That is a new term for me, a "Phal", I love it!

To answer your original questions, DrDawn:

How are your orchid's roots?
-Well, to tell you the truth, I am not sure...none are on the surface and I do not know how to check when they are buried within the media...

It looks like you have it in a pot with lots of air holes, which is good, but the media looks very wet.
I had just watered the Phal when I took the picture, but in general, I feel like the medium may be not drying out as much as it should between watering. I water my orchids (all Phals) once a week, and this particular buddy (I call it "Keiki" for obvious reasons) would change from weighing anywhere between 8.7 oz to 12.1 oz heavier after watering.

When did you last repot it?
Good question! Before I started logging data about it, unfortunately! But judging from when I purchased the potting containers, I probably repotted sometime in July 2019 or August 2019, so almost year ago. That was the first time I repotted after purchasing the Phal from a grocery store. She has never grown a flower spike since repotting, but has grown the Keiki and new leaves. No new roots above the surface since.

What condition were the roots in? (Any chance you took any pics?)
I did not take a picture unfortunately, but I recall the root system was actually pretty ok looking in my novice eyes

All this being said, and this is kind of off topic from my original post...any advice on getting her to spike again? I think I had probably had her for perhaps a year in her original pot and medium before I reported her at the aforementioned time. I live in California in an apartment, and it's very hot outside now. I have a little shade, but I am still worried the 100 degree dry heat is just too much for her. I have been fertilizing every two weeks since March 23rd, I turn on a fan to cool her temperature at night since June 8th. But maybe she's just not ready in general? I also worry the fan isn't strong enough to drop the temp enough (it's a very tiny fan).

Also to tie it back to the original post after all, I was worried the Keiki would prevent her from flowering. But I would rather have the two of them together and no flowers ever than nothing! Attached some pics of Keiki as July 25th (before watering day, which is Mondays).

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by DaytripperEleanor

All this being said, and this is kind of off topic from my original post...any advice on getting her to spike again?

Absolutely! Just keep taking care of this wonderful plant, and watch the new leaves grow. If the plant is relatively young, then good growing conditions will see new leaves get larger and larger (up to a point that is).

And eventually - the orchid will develop a spike again, or will grow an extension spike from an existing spike.

How long to wait - hard to say. But maybe at least a spike will come out each year.

[DaytripperEleanor]

Thank you, SouthPark! That is hopeful to hear! I have 4 unbloomed Phals now, and I feel like I shouldn't buy another flowered one until I can make at least one of my current buddies spike/flower. I'll keep posting/reading on the board in general to get tips!