brassavola nudosa, dropping leaves.
 

i cannot find my camera, so a verbal description will need to be enough.
i did not water my orchids for 2 days, because i did not want to water at night. today a leaf fell off. I thought I might have been clumsy, but a second one fell off. Before they fall, they start turning a reddish color starting at the base of the leaf.

what can cause this? i got the plants from Andy's about a wek ago. I was soaking in the sink daily at first, but I was afraid of the orchids not drying out enough.

These don't look broken off, looks like the plant dropped them rather then they broke.

A picture would really help. But soaking every day sounds like too much for a Brassovola nodosa. What are the roots like. What temperatures was it shipped in and was there a heat pack?

I forgot to say that the orchids are mounted, and I have it in a south window, not right up next to the window, but hung about a foot away. (on the side of a kitchen cabinet. (our weather is genearally overcast, so I don't think it is in too much light.)

Ok, with mounted, watering every day may not be too much. So long as they do dry in between. Did it get chilled during shipping? Can't offer much else. Maybe someone else can.

I have been keeping my house at 70 F. No, it was not sent with a heatpack. Temperatures in my area have been about 40 F, at the coldest. I am watering with tap water.

40F is pretty cool if it had to endure that temperature for any length of time. It could be the problem. Make sure it dries out before watering and just keep it in moderate temps and don't over fertilize till it shows some new growth. If the roots and rhizome are OK, it should survive.

I forgot thast you asked about roots. Most of the roots are a silverygreen in color. I thinkthey are okay.

The reddish color at the base might indicate a fungus/bacterial problem. If you don't remove the papery stuff around the pseudobulbs, water can sometimes get trapped in there. Normally, this is not a problem if the air is really warm and there is a nice breeze (as in summer) so that the water completely evaporates before the next watering but in the winter, this can be a problem if you live somewhere cold, especially if the days are overcast. Being in the window, the plants are even cooler and water evaporates even slower.
When I grew them in the colder window, I probably soaked the mounted brassavolas about once a week. Under the lights, this year, I soak the two mounted Brassavolas twice a week and water the 'potted' nodosa (in a pot with no medium) every other day. The lights make it very warm and dry.

What is considered a moderate temperature? Usually in winter, I program my thermostat, to turn off heat at night, and to raise it before I get up. But so far, I have been feeling chilled this winter, and have been keeping temps a constant 70F.

IMO its just too dry in your home for a mounted orchid. They need consistent constant humidity. We like to think watering replaces the humid factor but in reality, It only passifys us into thinking we are doing something. Misting is not humidity. Its light watering. You cant mist anything as FINE as humidity. You have to generate some humidity around the plant. Humidity is water vapor. You can use a humidifier or vaporizer in some cases where a small area needs some control. Its messy.
2nd option: others have had good success with this.
Get a tray with some pebbles in it and cover the pebbles with water. Place the mount in the tray on top of the pebbles. Place the tray in a nice warm sunny window. If you dont give it enough light to use the moisture and water your just drowning the plant anyway. good luck



Each molecule of water that evaporates into a particular parcel of air as vapor will replace a molecule of either nitrogen or oxygen, which account for roughly 99 percent of the air’s gasses.
Water vapor molecules, which are one oxygen atom with a weight of 16 and two hydrogen atoms each with a weight of 1, add up to a molecular weight of 18, which is much lighter than the nitrogen and oxygen they displace when they evaporate into air. Humidity actually replaces the molecular structure of the air around the plant. Otherwise its still wet air.

I got four plants from Andy's in October and one was a B. nodosa. It lost all its leaves but 4. It hasn't died and has healthy new routes growing. It was well attached to the mount so I couldn't remove it. I have it nestled into LECA because that's what I grow in already and it's a substrate I understand. I think RJ is probably on the right about the humidity difference between your growing conditions and Andy's and you're going to see an adjustment period. I haven't gotten a new leaf on the nodosa yet, but I'm happy with its root growth and not worried.

It could be the humidity, since you don't provide a numerical value for it, it's difficult to say.

It could also be the temperature, and since you did provide a numerical value, I'd have to also agree that 40 F might be a tad too cold for this orchid. I'd shoot for a low of 50 F or 55 F.

You also do not mention how bright the orchid is being grown.

Another tip might be to water with warm water.

If you could find your camera and post a pic, it'll be helpful in determining other things such as whether they could've been older leaves, idk.

Pictures will really help.

I think given the description, the cold damage might be it. B. nodosa does not like cool weather and 40F is more than enough to damage the plant. Dropping of leaves are quite common as a result of cold shock.

Watering everyday of a mounted orchid will not cause the slightest problem at all.
Direct sun through the window won't hurt nodosa either.

red color is also associated with cold damage in certain cattleya groups.

If the roots are good, then the plant should recover on its own time.

Keep them well watered and give it strong light.

Humidity is not an issue here.
I am an indoor grower and I do not use misting system or anything at all, so the relative humidity can be quite low depending on the season.
I do not see any ill effect of lower than ideal humidity.
Also, B. nodosa will be the last orchid that will be affected by low humidity.
I have dried up my nodosa and certain cattleya for a few weeks due to neglect once, and not a single leaf dropped, but there was some wrinkles on the pbs.

Mine is also from Andy's. :)
I have actually knocked a few growths off the potted nodosa recently but it responded by sending out new growth, fortunately.
With shipping, as long as it is above freezing, the plants, well packed, do not typically suffer. I have ordered quite a few plants in the winter. The only plant I have ever had damaged with temperatures in the forties has been the chocolate tree (Theobroma cacao) but that grows in low elevation rainforests within ten degrees of the equator...constantly hot temperatures. It should never have been sent out until temperatures were at least in the sixties. The nodosa should not have been bothered by a few days in the forties. Cold temps seem to cause the leaves to get damage and not just fall off (I forgot my last nodosa outside one autumn...that is why I bought one from Andy's and another from Oak Hill).
If it wasn't getting enough water, the roots would dry up and the leaves would become thinner. My Little Stars and nodosa have never been too concerned about humidity.
It does need pretty high light, though. I had my Brassavola nodosa and Little Stars about six inches from the South-facing glass doors. (I made certain that there wasn't any air leaking through, though). On sunny days, they would be in direct light the entire day.
If water gets trapped in cooler temperatures, you might get either a bacterial or fungus infection. I have had this happen and lost either sheaths or growths with my Cattleyas (this past summer was cold and wet). I guess that is why I am concerned. I don't see what else might be causing your problems as everything seems pretty good. Good luck. I hope you don't lose any more leaves and it recovers. If it isn't an infection, it should start sending out new growths, as mine is doing after I knocked off the leaves.

---------- Post added at 11:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 PM ----------

PS. It might be worth calling Andy's and asking them what they think might be happening. They are really experts and might have some good advice for you.

The Brassavola nodosa has three leaves left. None have fallen off after the first two. The leaves left look kind of sickly, a bit yellowish
I am still watering daily, because they seem to dry out that fast.

Can you take a picture?

Non-of my leaves dropped off after those first two, So I was thinking that was just an adjustment. But today I saw dark spots on the three remaining leaves. I have cut watering down to every other day, or sometimes, every third day.

Yes, even in the dry home under lights, I don't water my Brassavolas more than twice a week. One is getting new growths so it gets watered twice a week and the other two are lucky if they get watered once a week. The Little Stars is in bloom and has been since just after Christmas. (two are mounted, one is in a clay pot with no medium)
Make certain that it gets extra calcium, especially if you are watering that often.

Hmm, now you've got me wondering if I am watering my Little Stars too frequently. I mounted one this past November on a cedar plank with a small amount of moss between the rhizome and the plank. It is in a terrarium under a Metal Halide lamp, temps reach a high of 83 during day and down to 72 at night and relative humidity about 70-75%, with good air flow. I am spraying the mount every morning, and by the next morning, the moss is totally dry and crunchy and the roots are a solid white. It seems to be growing well; after two months it has enough roots firmly mounted to the plank, so I removed the fishing line holding the plant to the plank. It is actually in flower right now with just three flowers.

So my question is: how dry is dry? Does it take a couple of days in your home for the roots to turn solid white? Or are they not totally dry even though they look white, and so you wait a couple of days? Maybe I am watering mine before they are dry enough?

Also, I am curious, what do you use as a calcium supplement?

I use fluorescents so it likely is not as hot as your lighting and I do not have a fan. The temperatures in the room stay in the upper 60'F (sometimes seventy if it is sunny--rare here in Ohio) during the day and get a little cooler at night. My Little Stars is actually hanging on the side of the shelf so it isn't directly under the lights. It is bare-root mounted and it has green growing tips on the roots.
The one nodosa is mounted on a stick (Andy's) with a bit of medium but the roots turn green when watered. It doesn't seem to be growing right now. The other nodosa is in a clay pot with no medium and is in full growth mode. The root tips stay green. These are both under the lights.
I would guess that with your warmer temperatures, you probably do need to water every day, especially if the roots are growing. During the summer, I often have to water mine daily or every other day.

Lots of good insight from everyone else. I would just say increase temps to above 75, along with higher humidity. If it is stressed, you don't want to prolong its winter slow period and give the stress a foothold. Raising the temperature along with humidity will give it a chance to start growing out of this stress damage. :)

My heating bill is already higher than I like it to be, so I am not going to turn my thermostat up.

I do have a 20 gallon aquarium that I could place him in. What kind of heater, and where do I find one? I think I have a lighted cover for the tank, but the tank wouldn't fit on the window sill. So this may not be enough light

Thanks leafmite, we definitely have different temps to deal with, so I guess I will just keep doing what I am doing. The thing that drives me crazy about orchids is always wondering if there is something I could be doing better. That's what makes this board so valuable, everyone sharing what works for them. But sometimes, ignorance is bliss too!

Hi Plantluvver! I'm just like you. My b. cordata is not doing well in clay pot with coarse soil. Only have two good leaves left, right now. It's in small cedar basket, no potting media. They don't do well in pot from what I've heard. Even thou, I live in west coast Florida. I'm hoping mine will get better soon. I wish you the best. :)
I have a question.... Did someone say that cattleya do have red spots from cold??? I thought it meant too much sun? My GOK cattleya do have red spots.



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Thanks for posting, everyone.