ORGANIZATION - HOW DO YOU DO WINTER REST?
 

:rofl:
Ok guys, so I went little bit overboard this summer, and bought many many many orchids, probably over 30 new ones, lot of Dendrobiums, that I absolutely adore, but was not successful with the few I had by now, cause never did give proper winter rest:-) So, many has seen maybe my balcony, those who did not, see pics. I would live to read your brains on How to get organized with winter rest. My issue is, I really can't reorganize and move the ones that need winter rest to one section and keep the rest elsewhere, my balcony is limited with the different parts suitable for different orchids, the orchid hanging wall is pretty much in the shade all the time, so it is for all low light babies, than on thee railings are bulbo's, some cattleyas, few phals, and in the right SUN corner are all that need lot of sunshine, either direct or filtered under sun cloth. I have probably 10 different dendrobiums - most of them requires winter rest -, as well as one catasetum. I am just trying t figure out how to be BEST organized and have it somehow under control:-) What do you do, if you have small space like me and no chance to MOVE the ones needed winter rest to one space together?

Avoid watering the ones that need winter rest, idk?

Just water the ones that need it, and don't water the ones that don't. Instead of using a hose and hosing them down, grab a bucket and water individually.

I do water everything by hand, either with pressured bottle or soaking in the bucket, depends on the orchid, so no hose at the balcony:-) I will have to just mark somehow the ones needed rest so I won't forget, I have over 70 orchids there so it is crowded and confusing little bit:-)

You know those little sticky-dots you can find at Staples
(or the grocery store/Walgreens), they come in 3 colors, all in the pack, & I use those to mark certain orchids for disease/insect watch, new bud/inflorence watch, ones that desperately need a repot, etc. Or, you could buy a few different colors of the plastic plant tags, (the ones you write the orchid's name on) they come in so many colors, and just color-code the ones that need a "rest" & the ones that don't. :)

I like the plastic tags for something that will be in the pot for awhile, but I use the paper sticky dots (sorry, don't remember what they're called), for repotting time, when certain orchids are good (no need to repot) I use the green, otherwise, I use the pink for the ones that desperately need a repot, and the orange for ones that can wait a bit longer than the former group.

Kelly's Korner orchid supply has some, if your local supply places don't.

That is a good idea Island Girl! That is a very inexpensive way to identify winter rest orchids. Thank you!

Also keep in mind that "winter rest" is not a matter of not watering, it is a matter of not providing any nitrogen.


Ray Barkalow
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Sometimes.

There are orchids that don't even do well when they are watered during dormancy, even if they are not fertilized. These include some Dendrobiums.

Hi everyone! Just wondering...which orchids do you provide a "winter rest" for?

I've always taken the "winter rest" as the time in which you don't fertilize and water a bit less in terms of keeping the plant a bit on the dry side.

I tend to apply that rule to those in my collection that have little to no active growth in the winter months. But while I was thinking about it, I realized that I have no hard rules for any particular species or hybrid. This is what prompts me to ask...Which ones in your collection have that winter rest? Thank you bunches! :)

You mean a completely dry winter rest and no fertilization?

A great example for one, (and I'm not the only one who experienced this, btw), is Dendrobium harveyanum.

Read Marni Turkel's account of growing Dendrobium harveyanum. I had a similar experience.

Thank you, Philipe for that suggestion. I inherited a den NOID and had no idea as to how to care for it. Am I correct that den harveyanum is a nobile type?

And here is the link to Marni Turkel's article:
Dendrobium harveyanum

No, it is not in the same section as Den nobile. Den nobile is in section Dendrobium.

Dendrobium harveyanum is in section Densiflora from what I understand.

---------- Post added at 07:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

I wouldn't bother watering anything in the genus Catasetum, Cycnoches, Mormodes, or Clowesia during their winter rest periods either.

Thanks so much, this will work, I will go for plastic tags just because even the fact I won't be watering those in need of inter rest, I will be still watering around and would be scared they will get soaked and peel off, however, I will need to mark those that need the winter rest, than those where I have to look for the first buds or growths also:-) Thanks so much Island girl, it is pretty crowded at the balcony, so I must have some kind of the organization for the winter time:-)))

---------- Post added at 11:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

Hi Ray
now I am little confused, because nearly every single page says for most of my Dendrobiums to STOP fertilizing around october, and than withheld water nearly completely from the end ov november till the buds/spikes arise, water ONLY when severe shrinking appears?????? This is what is really driving me nuts, I didn't do any proper winter rest before, and I did not have one bud on any dendrobium, I want to make it right, but some people say still water at least once a week, some say only mist from time to time, and most say no water only when shrinking appears?????? I really do need some clear explanation, I do understand this apply also to my one catasetum, meaning NO WATER till new growth appears?

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

Hi King
and many thanks for your intel. now, I need really to get to the bottom of this, 'cause it drives me crazy. I do assume you are familiar with Dendrobiums and which one NEED winter rest, what's more, which one SHOULD BE really kept dry (like no water at all except when severe shriveling of the canes appears)??? Please, HELP. I need to know what to do with my Dends during this winter here in Florida, I really really wanna make it right to make them finally and for the first time bloom. So far, I know I screw up last winter because my Dends have instead of blooms like crazy dozens of keikis on the old canes = bad winter rest, so blooms form into keikis:-( So this is my Dendrobium List, please whoever knows, help me with details what to do with each of them, group them into NO WATER AT ALL, maybe another group LITTLE WATER, and than water through out the year:
NOBILE HYBRID
AGGREGATUM
ANOSMUM
GOLDSCHMIDTIANUM
BRACTEOSUM
DOCKRILLIA
GATTON SUNRAY
UNICUM
HETEROCARPUM
PARISHII
JAQUELYN THOMAS
KINGIANUM

So, WHICH of these need proper total winter rest, water ONLY when I see they shrivel too much, which one should have LIMITED watering (less than summer, but still water during winter), which one should be watered as regular when needed??? I do know Dockrillia is all year watered and mine is doing great for years, also I did water Jaquelyn Thomas during the winter, it never looses leaves and it is blooming every year, but the rest is mystery to me???? Some of them are very small and mounted, like mine PARISHII OR UNICUM AND AGGREGATUM, the rest are nice big plants. MANY MANY THANKS to anyone who will finally explain and clear this to me:-) (and others I guess as well)

Hi HighSeas, I know many of my Dendrobiums need winter rest, also my catasetum must be kept dry during winter till new growth appears, other that that, most of my collection is just lower water during winter or water as usual for some. But confusing is HOW do you do winter rest, as I asked in other post! So let's wait for someone to clear this, I hope:-))))

Those of you in Florida do not need to worry much about winter rest. We barely have a winter and growing just slows down. I just cut back on all fertilizing and watering from Dec, thru, Feb. We don't stay cold enough for long periods. What works in Florida doesn't work up North.

That's what I have read also, however, what is proper winter rest than here in Florida? So far, after research and reading many blogs and pages and books, I am about to stop fertilizing sometimes between September-October, than I will also lower watering in fall, and like end of November I will stop watering for these in a need of winter rest, and water only when I see shriveling of the canes, till the buds start to appear. Is this correct for Florida?

I water all my orchids the same, some a little more or less but never do I stop watering. Usually we go to the Beach Christmas week, orchids are feeling the same heat. Up North so many places just close up the greenhouse and don't open again till Spring.

I have Dens, Catts, Bulbos, catasetums, phals, paphs, Epics, cadetas, cymbidums, Oncidiums, and Vandas none get a winter rest like they do in Penna. Most of our orchids have been raised in Florida, California, and Hawaii weather. Unless we get a heavy frost they enjoy the cooling down time. My catasetums don't even lose their leaves.

Thanks, very interesting, than I do not know what is my issue, I have most of my orchids from Florida sellers or Hawaii sellers. I did not do any winter rest ever before, and did whatever you are saying, meaning still water whenever needed during the winter time, and unfortunately, all my dendrobiums grew like crazy, to huge plants, however NONE of them ever bloomed, and there was many keikis on some of them, which after careful reading means they actually did not get proper winter rest, and instead of blooms they went to keikis. So, now I am really torn and confused, because this makes no sense to me. If I should not give winter rest here in Florida, than what went wrong for my Dendrobiums not to bloom at all and push only keikis????

On a Dendrobium, the keiki is typically found sprouting along the length of the cane or from the end of the cane. This is induced by the accumulation of growth hormones at that point, either naturally, or by the application of keiki paste.

I don't think your keikis has anything to do with flowering. I would think flowering is a light issue. Put the Dens together in the sunniest spot asd see what happens. A keiki will bloom at the same time as the mother and makes a beautiful plant, one day.. Ask in the Florida group what everyone else is doing. I have eight in bloom now. I even repotted and the buds didn't drop.

I am really not sure, I definitely do not use any keiki paste, I do not look for keikis really, but for blooming Dendrobiums, which I have so far no luck with This is the copy of one article online, and I hear this from other specialists as well, therefor I did assume I didn't do correct winter rest. I do not want to start new thread, I hope someone from Florida will join here and give me the advise:

There are several circumstances that can stimulate the production of keiki. A relatively common occurrence is the production of keiki instead of flowers. Normally canes will not produce keiki in their first year, before they have bloomed. If a mature cane produces keiki instead of flowers when its blooming season comes around, this means something has disrupted the sequence of metabolic processes that produce the hormonal changes that turn the resting vegetative buds into floral buds

my Dendrobium pirardii, biggibum, and anosmum lose all their leaves and that's when I start to withhold water and fertilizer until I see any signs of new growth or budding flowers....only morning dew and the surrounding humidity can sustain it= I just leave it alone in bright shaded light.
My Dendrobium Victoria-reginae and some of the phal-den hybrids don't need winter rest but I still lessen the fertilizer and watering in winter (instead of water every other day I water them once a week=fertilizer once a week becomes every other week....
but not as drastic as the plants that really need winter rest that gets no water or fertilizer at all unless I see any signs of buds or new growth....you need to be strong on this....unless you see the canes shrinking and about to die then give it a spray....
those plants that do not lose their leaves: I stop water and fertilizer on December 15th and force the rest on the plant....
you just have to do research on your plants and the culture sheet will tell you if they need rest or not; then put a label on the pot

Thanks Bud, I do have diary, with every one of my orchids on one page,, and all they need. Most of the Dendrobiums actually say winter rest, and so does the catasetum. Even the seller of my new Dendrobium Nobile hybrids, that is actually here in Florida, advise to stop fertilizing at the end of August (that's what he does with them), and than hold water during the winter time, with some watering only when needed, till new buds appear. For anosmum, it is pretty much MUST as I did understand it, to hold water and not fertilize. I do get fertilizing part, and that is not issue, my issue is really how to do it with water, some here say water in Florida even during winter, some people and sellers from Florida say hold water as much as possible, etc, for pretty much newbie with many different dendrobiums, all of them saying on culture sheet winter rest, I am pretty confused:-(

Some dens really prefer no water at all in the winter. Den aggregatum went the entire winter here without water, never lost a leaf, and the old bulbs plumped out again to a certain degree. Den kningianum didn't even realize it wasn't getting watered. I like the orchids that rest...saves me extra work and that distilled water I have to buy when it doesn't rain or snow. Love the cattleya dowiana so far as it doesn't mind going a couple of weeks in the winter without water. :)

Thanks Leafmite, yes, that is what I do read, however as it was mentioned here before, you are in Ohio, zone 5b, we are in Miami, zone 11, so the question is - what to do in my zone, where there is really no true winter, and temperatures are worm to hot most of the winter, with few days drops. I hope some Floridians will join or answer my questions I started in my Florida group I am joined to, or I will just have to go with my guts on this one. It is so hard to choose what to do, because everyone is saying something totally different, and it is confusing, at least to me. However I do go this year for winter rest, because my Dendrobiums last winter only grew and stayed all green without dropping a leaf, and than they absolutely did not bloom and continue to grow crazy speed during spring and summer. So, I guess, something was wrong and in My opinion, it was my lucking on winter rest. I will do that only for Dendrobiums that say it, and Catasetum, I will only lessen water for other orchids due to colder weather, and I will hope for the best and some blooms next year:-)))))

This is a site in Hawaii! Should be helpful!

General Care

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...nter-rest.html

An old thread but might be useful here.

I'm still someone who is not sure what I'm doing with winter rest, so I'm always interested to read what others do.

I was one told Haloween to Valentines was a good time for a winter rest, but more recently someone said to me they stopped fertiliser on some from August onwards. I'm trying that this year on a couple that kept growing too late into the season last year (most of the winter still growing). But still got to see how it works.

1. I live in Southern California. The climate here is more subtropical than it would be tropical, so there is a distinct seasonal change between the warm and cool months.

Spring and summer is when the amount of sunlight we get here starts to gradually increase in the number of hours. It gradually gets warmer and warmer until late summer. The beginning of late summer is when you start to see a tapering off of temperatures, but day length is much slower to decrease.

Fall is when you get an even sharper drop off in temperatures and the length of the day starts to decrease much faster.

The beginning of winter is when the day length has shortened to what it will be for the remainder of the season. By this time, it can get pretty cold, where day temperatures can stay at 75 F - 80 F, and nights can drop down to as low as 36 F, but usually averages out to be about 45 F.

2. Most of the Dendrobiums that have these winter rest periods come from subtropical or temperate regions in their respective countries. They have distinct seasonal rain patterns. This is why you will see a lot of in-situ pics with the trees some of these types of Dendrobiums grow on having lichens grow on them rather than mosses.

(Some mosses tend to have a difficult time surviving long periods of drought - at least the vegetative parts of the nonvascular plants, not necessarily their spores. More lichen species are better adapted to seasonal droughts than mosses are.)

I really recommend checking out the Bakers' website where you can order care sheets on some of these orchids rather inexpensively. You can even check out their free sample sheets.

Orchid Culture -- Charles and Margaret Baker

3. I don't know all the Dendrobiums that need a completely dry winter rest and no fertilizer, but I do know of a few.

Dendrobium unicum doesn't have to be completely dry in the winter, but they would probably bloom better if they got it. Plus, no water during winter will not kill this orchid at all. They will look desiccated, but don't let that fool you, they are very much alive. No fertilizer necessary in winter. These are semi-deciduous during the winters. Only the old canes drop all their leaves. The new canes don't.

Dendrobium kingianum doesn't have to be grown dry in the winter, but the blooms tend to be stronger and more plentiful if you did left them to dry out during the winter. Withhold fertilizer. These stay "evergreen" even during the winter.

Dendrobium nobile has a distinct winter rest in its native habitat, but that may be due to the temperatures they experience in the wild. When giving this one a winter rest, no water is needed for 3 - 4 months. No fertilizer. These go completely deciduous in cooler climates. You can follow this guideline for both Dendrobium parishii and Dendrobium anosmum.

I don't know jack diddly about the hybrids. ;)

I've never grown Dendrobiums in section Pedilonium before, which is the section that Dendrobium bracteosum and Dendrobium goldschmidtianum belong to, so I can't say.

---------- Post added at 07:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 AM ----------

Dendrobium aggregatum has a winter rest. No water and no fertilizer. They will not bloom at all if you don't withhold water and fertilizer during the winter. They are "evergreen" during winter.

---------- Post added at 07:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ----------

Yeah, Dendrobium heterocarpum, just follow the guideline for Dendrobium nobile. They're in the same section, (section Dendrobium).

Never grown a single Dockrilla, can't advise. Would like to one day though.

Many Thanks king, I will go and read the link. I did already research many pages and bought and read many books, my concussion comes from too much reading and asking, I assume. Every book, every article online and every member here gives different version, unfortunately. My grower tells me for nobile dends he sold to stop fertilize now the end of August and give it some dry winter rest, some others say they do not do winter rest at all, some say they just water less, everyone does whatever they do feel is good, so I assume this is the way I will have to go this year, I will do whatever I feel to and will see, but definitely will do rest because last year with no winter rest did not work for me what so ever. many thanks to you and others for tips and help.

Btw, I should mention that the majority of the rain we get will be during the late winter months - spring months.

---------- Post added at 07:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 AM ----------

You're welcome.

Yeah, you gotta just feel it out.

You'll get it.

Ohh and Dockrilla, GO FOR IT, it is extremely cute, and that is pretty much one of my orchids, that grows really like a weed, and blooms every single summer!!!! Amazing, it double in size every season, it is on the shade wall where phals are, mounted, and with daily watering it is big easy grower!!! It really does not matter how much you fertilize for this one in my eyes, last year I hardly fertilized maybe once every 2 months, bloomed many spikes, this year i do fertilize even 2x a month and blooms again multiple spikes;-)

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 AM ----------

Hi Rosie, the same issue here even this year, my bracteosum just started to give new growths like 2 weeks ago, they are so tiny still, he same with Goldschmidtianum, spikes just started to grow. I will go for it this year though, will stop fertilizing September, and reduce water for the fall and than stop watering probably beginning december till I see some buds. Just checking on canes and water or mist only if really needed. Will see:-)))

I had a really close look at one of the Dockrilla species a few months ago at a local orchid shop, and it looked really nice. Since they primarily dealt with hybrids, the occasional species orchid they bring in will stick out. I wasn't sure which Dockrilla species it was, but I think it was Dockrilla wassellii. I passed it up at the time because I was penny pinching and I really didn't have the time to take care of too many orchids. If I had to get one, it'd probably be this one.

That's the one I have. Check my pics:-)