Where did YOU hear bad advice to spray orchid roots with hydrogen peroxide?
 

Orchid board gets so many posts from new growers that include a familiar piece of bad advice that was followed. It goes something like 'I saw. (__symptom here__) so I took my plant out of the pot and sprayed the roots with hydrogen peroxide'. Usually followed by an observation that the orchid is sick or dying, or at least has lost more roots. I have even seen posts where hydrogen peroxide (HP) had been used for insect control.

It seems like the people that make these posts are reasonable people, trying to give proper care to their plants, but they have received the same piece of bad advice, and followed it, leading to orchid damage or loss.

To anyone that might have heard this advice before, whether you followed it or not, where did YOU hear advice to spray orchid roots with HP? One source or from multiple sources?

I thought it was obvious that MOG does promote this practice.

She has like 400,000 views on one of her care tutorials where I am sure she mentions using it and it being good at killing snails. Just what she says, but watching her videos it is also clear it isn't very effective dealing with said snails but yeah I'd say if 400,000 people have watched her video then that is the most likely source. Even though I use it occasionally not many places do recommend using it as much as MOG does. Just to answer the curiosity part.

I read and occasionally contribute to the orchid subreddit, where I hear that misinformation and directions to view MOG videos at least 10 times everyday.

I agree. Miss Orchid Girl has a very good presentation and offers a lot of good advice, but mixed in with the good are some very bad ideas(tm). I would recommend that new orchid collectors avoid her videos.

-Keith

I think one of the main purveyors of this misinfo has been identified but I will add that Facebook seems to be it's megaphone. Orchid advice threads there make my head explode; It seems to be human nature to seek out tricks, quick fixes, and shortcuts as opposed to patiently developing a holistic understanding from experience. Dunning Kruger runs rampant and people clearly have no skills at determining how reliable a source of information is.

I've seen it on reddit, Houzz, FaceBook orchid groups, orchid Youtubers, some folks here on Orchid Board, some older orchid society care sheets. An old pdf by Sue Bottom on St Augustine's website is still there touting its uses. It also used to be a go-to for cleansing minor cuts on people; not in present times. Times change, but some old remedies that have been found to be unhelpful still remain and get passed around regularly. Heard of putting butter on a burn?

I'm not a YouTube follower, but most current Youtubers don't mention using hydrogen peroxide anymore. As Sade once mentioned, one needs to not only look at the source, but also the date the information was provided and comparing against more current, modern practice.

Interesting, JustAddIce orchids speaks against using it.:biggrin:

It would be interesting to see actual effects in a controlled test.
I know people often advocate for H2O2 in hydroponic systems, and it seems to have more benefits than drawbacks when used at low concentrations.

Doctors would tightly bind the chest to reduce pain from broken ribs. Then they found that the restricted airflow greatly increased the likelihood of developing pneumonia. If you've ever had broken ribs, you know that the pain from coughing can make you wish the pneumonia would kill you.

-Keith
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I like doing experiments like this. What do you think a controlled test should look like?

Perhaps start out with two identical orchid seedlings with well-established roots growing in clear plastic pots. Treat one and not the other. I don't use H2O2, so should the concentration be?

-Keith

I'm old enough that this was done to me in eighth grade. Then I had a dance recital that weekend. Passed out on stage from lack of airflow. A most humiliating and awkward moment in my young teenage angst years.

I gave up dance lessons shortly thereafter. :blushing:

I broke all the ribs down one side of my back jumping off a horse. They kept me in the hospital overnight for observation. During my overnight stay I contracted a nasty strain of hospital-acquired pneumonia. I ended up back in the hospital in a coma for two weeks and almost died. Moral to the story - avoid hospitals.

-Keith

Characterizing the Phytotoxic Effects of Hydrogen Peroxide on Common Microgreen Species and Lettuce Cultivars

And a PhD dissertation

Yup, at almost all costs.

Not to disagree with Keith, but I broke 5 ribs due to leaving a moving motorcycle prematurely. Also broke my collar bone. Overnight stay and every post crash test they could think of, then surgery. Fortunately, there were no ill effects from the hospital. Just my bruised pride. :backtotop

Was the departure voluntary or involuntary? Either way does sound painful.

I kind of did this experiment early this year with four mini phals. Two purchased from Trader Joe’s at the same time and two from an orchid nursery. The TJ ones had moderate and severe root rot. The nursery ones had relatively healthy roots but one had moldy media.

All were repotted the same week, into similar media and slotted pots, and treated with spraying 3% peroxide on the damp roots.

The healthier TJ mini phal and nursery phal had no issues with it. They maybe paused growth for a month or two but both are now some of my healthiest and most floriferous orchids.

The TJ one with worse roots died, and upon dissection I did find a purple ring. The nursery phal with moldy media lost all its roots but I was able to nurse it back to health (see my recent post).

My conclusion? Peroxide is not a cure all nor a sure killer, and its suitability for use probably depends on what’s actually ailing the orchid and its current state of health. I would continue using it judiciously on mild cases of root rot and expect a period of stall afterward, but wouldn’t use it on severely stressed plants.

Although Hydrogen Peroxide does have antimicrobial properties, it is not recommended for orchid care. The oxidizing properties of Hydrogen Peroxide on your orchid roots will burn and destroy the healthy velamen that protects the roots, hindering their absorption.

Well hydrogen peroxide may not be helpful but it doesn't really hurt at low concentration.

Quite involuntary. Hit a slick spot in a corner on a new rear tire. Bad combination. Fortunately I was going about 10 mph when it occurred. And yes, it hurt.

Alan Koch of Gold Country orchids was a proponent of pouring H2O2 through the medium to “oxygenate” it. He told me he bought it by the pallet.

I view that as a risky practice, but when you consider that the peroxide decomposes almost instantly upon contact with organic material, maybe the risk is lessened a bit.

I spent a lot of time talking to the technical director at BioSafe Systems, who sell hydrogen peroxide products for horticulture, and he explained it as being a difference in concentration and stabilization.

Drugstore peroxide is typically 3% active and is mildly stabilized with stannous chloride. When the H2O2 to H2O reaction commences, it is a fast, relatively “violent” release of energy.

Their H2O2 products are designed to be delivered at a much lower concentration and are stabilized with peroxyacetic acid, which allows it do decay at a much slower rate - hence a non-damaging energy release - staying chemically active until it dries.

I used their Zero-tol product in my greenhouse for years with no issues.

Outstanding post, Ray! It explains a lot.

-Keith

Well, good golly Bill. Zero-tol. Who knew? Never heard of it. Super interesting... I read up on it on Arbico website. Gotta have some by spring. I learned something new today.

It makes perfect sense to choose something specifically designed for plant use, as opposed to random stuff out of the pantry. When one has more than a few plants, some super hard or impossible to replace, it sure makes even more sense. Gracias for your comment. :bowing

---------- Post added at 09:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

PS An interesting aside about know what you're using and why. I've used isopropyl alcohol for years on plants. Ran out a ways back, and daughter was coming to town and brought me some from her clinic. I got a bit of damage on a couple of plants I used it on, and zero difference on a couple others. Said to myself, huh, that's weird. Read the label and it was medical grade 99%. Frankly I hadn't given it a thought. Yup, double-checking never hurts.

Ray ....... is that H2O2 ? And you used it for media drench with orchid roots within it? I tried root spray at one stage ..... for trial. No plant deaths. But noticed setback of growth rate. As in a relatively long inactive period before growing occurs. Not the same observed pattern as when no H2O2 was applied ...... as in 3% concentration.

Just remember that Hydrogen Peroxide is a weak Bacteria-cide used to treat only bacteria infections (before antibiotics became common). Using it for other purposes, would be a waste of it.

And I do remember having butter put on burns as a child. Did not help with the pain but did make you smell like popcorn.

Zer-tol is a general disinfectant, effective on bacteria and fungi. I don’t recall the final, as-applied concentration specifically, but I seem to recall it being on the order of a third of a percent or something - well below the 3% in OTC stuff.

Somewhere, I have the remains of a very old jug of the concentrate, and it’s about 20%, yet being stabilized with the peracetic acid, it’s still active. I do know that at that concentration, it’ll attack the skin if it spills on you.

Thanks for adding those details Ray. Much appreciated.

Did you use it for benches only? Or the one-third percent mix was poured into media (with orchid roots within the media)?

No, the product was intended for plant contact.

The stronger versions were for disinfecting the area, including algae prevention.

Thanks Ray.

I actually heard the advice here but never tried it. I heard about using Cinnamon on the roots (possibly here) and tried that and killed the roots of a Cattleya...was not happy (many years ago). Grr.

Very early on, I was a big proponent of the use of cinnamon, but always stressed that it should never be used on roots.