Sarcochilus (ceciliae) care
 

I was reading about the care this particular species requires. Most websites seem to recommend scoria/bark; would sphagnum work? I ask mainly because sphagnum has historically worked well for most of my plants, so I haven't ventured much into other media. Also, apparently the species prefers to have its roots sit on top of the medium? Is this a tricky species/are there easier members of its genus that I might start out with?

Fred Clarke of Sunset Valley Orchids offers a variety of these for sale and has a good care sheet for them. A friend of mine grew them similar (but not exactly) to phals, and they bloomed well for her. Personally I don't see why moss shouldn't work, as long as you don't pack tightly in the pot. But Fred would be happy to help you grow these things and answer questions, give him a call!

As a general comment, “the plant” is not what determines what potting medium to use, and what works for one grower may not work for another.

You have to consider what the plant would see in nature, then consider the potting medium that works with the rest of your growing conditions and watering capabilities to deliver that.

Have only grown this one in a terrarium. Initially I was using a plastic net pot with sphagnum moss (not tightly packed, but not loose either). The plant seemed to be doing okay and had produced a few new leaves. Moss was kept damp, letting it dry before rewatering.

Further down the road ~ nothing seemed to be happening with this orchid, except for a couple of yellowing leafs that fell off. I pulled it out of the pot and took a look at the roots (the plant had a very robust root structure when first potted up in sphagnum). To my surprise there were only a few roots still attached. The ones that remained were healthy.

I re-potted (still using a plastic net pot, but used bark mixed with small pebbles as a medium). I had to water it more frequently than the sphagnum, but over the course of time, both the plant and root system greatly improved. Trial & error... had to figure out what would work best with the growing conditions/environment I was providing.

Sarco cecilae needs to be on the drier side. I got one from Santa Barbara Orchid Estate that was growing very happily in chunks of granite chips. It's more of a lithophyte than an epiphyte. Without any organic it was hard to keep it adequately watered... pebbles mixed with bark sounds like a good mix.

Thanks so much for the tips! :biggrin: I'll be trying a pebble or scoria mix then, probably with something else thrown in to retain a bit more moisture.

If you follow this link there are some photos of this orchid growing in the wild.

Sarcochilus ceciliae – TheRockLilyMan

The author goes further to point out that this is its normal situation of growth - on rock faces, but seldom bare rock, usually with quite deep leaf litter surrounding its roots. I think these are quite exposed rock faces, with scattered canopy cover. I think this is what you should be trying to duplicate, to the extent that you can in cultivation.

I grow Sarco. ceciliae as well. Growing very successfully in big chunk scoria that I water each morning. Then the scoria surface is all dry by sun-down. This doesn't mean all the scoria is all dry though. The layers down toward the bottom of the pot can still be moist at night time.

My watering method I use is the same as for all my other orchids ------ most water applied to the outskirt regions of the pot. And then I also spray the full surface later a little bit with some water --- essentially to get the roots a bit wet.

The roots of the ceciliae generally grow really well like that --- and the roots can actually grow at a pretty good rate.

My growing conditions for my ceciliae is under a balcony --- and they get full morning sun - several hours of morning direct sunlight. My conditions are tropical here. Doing really well. They appear to be quite hardy orchids under these conditions here - which is the usual case for all orchids growing in conditions that supports them well.

I've also been growing 3 juvenile ceciliae in a humidity tub ----- in scoria too. Also doing well. So I think that they may be able to actually grow in sphagnum - as most orchids can. As long as their roots have adapted to it. Because - when I think about it ----- baby orchids are supported by agar etc in flasks. So should be able to handle sphagnum - when adapted that is.

Also - interestingly - when I first started growing Sarcochilus --- I didn't know how Sarcochilus was supposed to be pronounced.

Eventually learned that the chilus portion is pronounced kigh-lus ...... as in kigh rhyming with high and thai (tie) etc. Not Sarco-kill-us.

This was my first Sarc. I grew it successfully in a spagnum/bark mix (about 50/50) in small plastic pots for 6-7 years.

Then I attended a talk on Sarcs, by someone, who has grown Sarcs extremely well for 30+ years. He mentioned that ceciliae tends to suffer from SSDS (Sarc Sudden Death Syndrome) - in part because it hates getting repotted.

Within 30 days he was right.

Had you never heard that, you’d still have the plant!

Kim ----- my first ever Sarco. ceciliae was growing on a piece of bark when I first bought it in June last year in 2020. I pryed its roots from its mount, and potted it in scoria ---- and it's doing great even today. At first - it was hard to say how it was going to go ----- but over several months of watching some juvenile leaves and roots get longer and longer ------ I give it the green light.

That's only for sharing my experience of my first Sarco. ceciliae. I have other ones too. I loosely popped baby ones into scoria - and the baby roots just nudge the side of the scoria. I can take pics later and upload here.

Sarco. ceciliae in scoria
 

Back again! With some pics now.

The first couple of pics are baby ceciliae in scoria.

The other pics are of my first ceciliae that I bought in June last year.

There is quite a long root that is hugging the rim of the pot on the right-hand-side - seen in the very last pic. There was no root there at all when I first potted the ceciliae into this pot last June. So quite nice to see good activity for the root growing.

Thanks for all the discussion! I will be aiming for a well-drained mix for sure, it seems. Very nice growing, by the way, SouthPark! It's kind of amazing these tiny plants can survive in such chunky scoria – true lithophytes.

Totally agree with you neo! The small baby plants with their fleshy leaves and their chubby little roots can handle rocky and dry situations really well. Handle better than other sorts of baby size orchids under the same conditions that is. That was so nice that you mentioned you grow ceciliae too!

A bit of advice from my grower, in order to flower these plants, they need a fall cool down. I was told they can endure night time temps into the 40s but must be protected from frost. Pictures of mine below.

One extra recommendation from me regarding Sarco. ceciliae is ------ if they're doing great with a watering plan that doesn't involve long-term wet/moist roots (eg. roots touching media like volcanic rocks etc) ----- then try to maintain those conditions (with that nicely working watering plan) ---- even though we know that it can rain for ages sometimes out in the wild.

If the media and roots of Sarco. ceciliae become super wet, and remains damp and moist for relatively longer periods than usual ------ then it is possible for these orchids to run into health problems. Not necessarily - but is possible ----- just like other orchids.

Thanks! Also, what temps are you keeping your S. ceciliae at? Some websites say it's a cool grower; others same cool to intermediate... I really hope I can keep this little one alive!

I think that Sarco. ceceliae is more on the intermediate side... it has a wide range, but in northern Australia it gets decidedly tropical conditions.

It's currently in the room where most of my other orchids are: plenty of sun and usually quite warm (unless my dad forgets to close the windows, and then it can get drafty). I think I'll keep it there unless something goes drastically wrong. Looks like there are a couple new roots on the way, which is good because it didn't have too many to start out with, and a few of them were damaged in transit.

Most welcome neo. During the 'winter' time here - in my tropical area ---- the average might be say 13 degrees C. Some nights can get lower ----- but no problem for the ceciliae. During the hot times of the year --- we can get up to 40 deg C or a bit more ...... which doesn't happen all that often. Some site reckons that the temperature shouldn't exceed 34 degrees C.

But what I can say is ----- I've had summer morning sun blazing down directly on these plants - and it really does get quite warm here, and they handle it easily. They can be pretty tough actually. What I do here is --- I water early in the morning heavily the outskirts of the pot (my scoria filled pot) --- and I only spray ever so slightly --- a very very tiny bit of water to just ever so slightly wet the roots closer up to the orchid. And they just do fine. Even small baby ones do well in the direct morning sun here. They just grow little chubby roots - which just get longer and longer, working their way out - or even down into the scoria.

I also grow Sarco. roseus --- which people once placed into the Sarco. ceciliae category ..... calling it var. roseus. But it turns out that Sarco. roseus has a couple of unmistakably different features --- one of them being the lip. The ceciliae has a couple of gaps toward each side at the front of the lip - giving the impression of incisors. The roseus doesn't have that ----- so roseus has a lip that is more like a slipper orchid. But pretty much the same growing conditions as for ceciliae.

Thanks! I'll stop worrying so much; seems like they can probably handle my conditions. :)

One of the lower leaves seems like it's beginning to yellow a bit; hopefully it'll just be that one. I'm writing it off as stress from the export process for now...

Welllllll I had it potted very shallow in scoria. Then all the roots rotted. :(

There is one teeny tiny root that is still growing. I think the kelp extract worked but then all the little root nubs that were starting out died (due to rot, I guess). So now I'm kind of at a loss as to what I should do, since on one hand it seems it is very prone to rot, but then on the other hand it is very dehydrated...

The root nubs probably died because they dried out. These need a lot of water. A commercial Sarco hybrid grower from Australia spoke to our society. They use a mix of perlite, bean bag chair stuffing, rock wool strands and one more non-organic thing I can't remember. They use different sizes for different ages of plants, but particles are always much smaller than people might use for similarly sized Phals or Catts. They water and fertilize every day of the year. He said they should never dry out.

Fred Clark sells near-flowering-size Sarco hybrids in seedling bark with a little small perlite. I left mine in the pot from Fred and it's growing well. I'm by no means a Sarco expert but based on what I've seen and been told I would not use medium nor large chunk anything for Sarcos.

For what it's worth... if you lose it, Sarco ceciliae is listed on the Santa Barbara Orchid Estate website (don't know how current they keep it, I did get one from there.. alas no longer have it but it did well for several years). Andy's Orchids doesn't list any Sarcochilus, but he may have it, website only lists about 10-15% of the species that he has available.

Neo ------ check this link too (click here).

Upping the humidity near the roots will help a lot. In my part of the world - ceciliae and roseus are growing in the wild here ----- so it makes my task of keeping them alive a bit easier. But I still attempt to provide the humidity near the roots without drowning the roots.

But I have also found what us orchid growers have known for a while now - about roots growing into wetter regions. If they have enough time to slowly grow into wetter regions (such as toward the outskirts/rim area of the pot, where I dump the bulk or even all of my water) ------- the roots tend to have no or less issue. So that feature of adapting or adaptability gets noticed sometimes.

Hmmm, so now I'm confused... it is supposed to be kept moist, but it also rots easily?

Maybe I'm using the word scoria wrong... it's very porous volcanic rock but the pieces are quite small; it's not super chunky.

Apologies! I need to clarify ------- I tend to use big deep pots. Really big is no problem - although - naturally, the bigger the pot is, the more wasteful the media can be heheh ----- but certainly there can be ways to compensate - such as surrounding edges etc with spaghnum moss.

But - for my big deep pots (of scoria) - I water heavily around the outskirts - toward the rim of the pot. This loads up the scoria with a heap of water and (I think) generates humidity in and around the whole pot (even toward the centre) all day. This is just a method of growing orchids in my region. There will be a whole range of options ----- and even tweaks that other growers can do too - such as whether they want to add some water, or no water toward the centre of the pot. Once they get their own working system going - and maintaining it ----- things will become smooth sailing.

At this stage, what do you think would be the best thing to do? I guess I'm just confused because the consensus is to keep it moist and humid, which makes sense, but I have been keeping the roots moist at all times and they have started to rot... maybe the rotting was already starting during the shipment process and I didn't notice. :dunno:

Go to Sunset Valley Orchids and read the growing information. Do what it says. He recommends medium bark, but his seedlings ship in seedling bark.

You likely did everything correctly neo. I bought my first ceciliae in June last year. It was mounted on a piece of wood or something - and I had to pry the roots off with my fingers - carefully that is. Coming up to nine months or so - of growing in scoria. And according to the RockLilyMan guy - who has seen the various habitats ...... he reckons that ceciliae can handle various sorts of conditions.

Growers sell ceciliae in flasks over here in some parts of Australia - which are reasonably priced too. And individual ceciliae plants come up every once in a while on ebay here - where the 'legal' sellers display their 'APQ' number - applies to the Australian sellers. But getting the flasks makes it easier for testing or trying out growing methods (to best of our abilities so as not to hurt too many juveniles) is probably best over here.

Sarco ceciliae does tend to grow a little warmer than most Sarcochilus, including the hybrids. (Most of the hybrids have S. hartmanii and or S. fitzgeraldii as major components, and they are cooler growing) I think S. ceciliae is more of an epiphyte - or lithophyte. I'm starting to grow more of the others - species and hybrids, mounted though most have been in pots. But I do think that S. ceciliae has some differences from the majority of the Sarcochilus, So perhaps best to not necessarily apply the general culture notes to it, look at habitat info too.

Okay, it is on the heat mat currently; I guess I'll just keep it in the same potting medium for now?

Sounds like a plan. I can't say for sure what works... I have only grown it once, and ultimately didn't succeed. I had it outside, and it just didn't do much - SBOE is likely just slightly more temperate than my place because it did work for them. Then I moved it into the GH and for a year or so it did much better. (I stuck with the SBOE rocks for a medium as I recall, may have added some bark but not sure) Then it declined, possibly was too wet but I don't know. It's a species that I would like to try again. Unlike the rest of the Sarcs, it is a sequential bloomer so can stay in bloom for a much longer time than the others that are mostly one and done. And it's pretty.

Sounds good neo. I was thinking that roots drying out/shrinking ----- can occur. But actual rotting of roots isn't expected. Definitely - staying with the same plan is ok here.

One confidence building scenario is ------ orchid flasks. The little orchids just need a bit of light, and that's about it. This is for ceciliae and heaps of other orchids. They can grow for months and months inside - with just a bit of adequate light - and nice temperature maintained. So as long as a suitable outside environment with adequate lighting, temperature, humidity is available ------- should be all systems go too.

Ok, I have to confess I took it out of the lava rock and put it in straight sphagnum, hoping it would encourage root growth. Turns out that was a terrible idea... the last little root nub rotted. :(

I'm not too sure if the plant can hang on for much longer, but I guess just for anyone out there who is thinking of growing this species: don't overwater your S. ceciliae or put it in a medium that's too moisture-retaining!

Maybe the key is to create a humid environment, like SouthPark's place, but then not actually water the roots themselves too much and/or have them soggy for too long. I'll probably have to buy another plant to find out.

Neo --- the comments you made and sharing with others the options you took is nothing less than excellent.

Nothing wrong at all with that particular strategy - and was worth a try.

One interesting thing I noticed is that these orchids are able to handle quite wet roots if they're conditioned or adapted to the wet conditions. One of the ceciliae roots in a pot extended right out to the rim of the pot - and when I water the orchid each morning - that region gets saturated ----- ultra wet. And the root stays green most of the time. That particular root grew into the wet zone - and adapted to the wet conditions. I'll take a pic later of that root --- which nudges the rim of the pot.

But for those inner roots - that sometimes gets the lightest of spray with water, or even no water at all (where the roots can still pick up humidity) are doing great too.

I sometimes do the light spraying of water toward the inner region - in case the roots have a chance to pick up some nutrients or fertiliser or elements in among the rocks.

I'm with you on the recommendation on medium that's not too moisture retaining. Not too soggy for too long is an excellent initial approach. Good humidity will definitely help a lot too. Thanks Neo!

Here is a pic that I captured this morning - that shows the long root that extended out ----- to the side of the pot. This is before I did the watering this morning. In the photo, there is a scoria piece on the left-hand-side of the pot, where we can see the root passes underneath it.

The short white coloured section just 'north' of the scoria piece is part of the root too.