The power of scoria (lava rock)
 

It is not what you thought hehehe.

It is another case of undivine intervention.

The flower spike happened to grow snug/parallel to the leaf, and even though it and the buds nudging the leaf may grow away from the leaf later ------ I prefer to just make sure there is clearance between buds and leaf.

One possible solution is shown hehehe.

Even a rock or any hard and light-weight thing of suitable size and shape should do the trick hehe.

This isn't the first time time I've done this. Other people probably do something similar too if they do encounter the same sort of situation.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1607116931

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1607116931

I have been a believer in rocks with good drainage and fairly frequent watering with low concentrations of nutrients for several years. I have successfully been using Growstones to accomplish this, but the company folded and I know I will eventually run out of stones. I know you are in OZ, but what size of lava rock are using for your various orchids and anything else special about the material?

Hi terry!

Thanks for mentioning Growstones. I just took a look online to see what they are. They look pretty good!

I use scoria from local garden supply stores that either come in really big pre-packed chicken-feed bags for convenience ---- and these bags have categories such as average diameter 10mm, 15 mm and 20 mm.

Other supply stores have piles of scoria for our own gathering - so we can bring our own bags, or car trailers etc to fill up ourselves - as much as we like. The price here in Australia could be roughly 1 dollar per 5 kg, which is really good.

For regular size catts ---- juvenile to full size, I just use an average diameter of 15 mm. But the piles of scoria rocks actually have diameter that can fall within say 10 mm up to 20 mm. So I found it's no problem to have rocks that just range between 10 to 20 mm in diameter.

For example - at this website here that I just found a moment ago ----- they sell '20 mm' scoria ...... which is actually just fine. The photograph of the scoria clearly shows a big variation in the actual sizes of the pieces ---- which is no problem at all.

If for some reason my orchid pots fall over due to strong wind or something ----- scoria (and even those grow-stones you mentioned) won't roll all over the place.

I was actually initially thinking of trying out a mix of round leca balls and regular fresh-water river pebbles. But figured that it might not be a great thing if the pots fell over for some reason, and the leca balls would be rolling around everywhere on the floor. Big clean-up operation and 'tears' hehehe.

There are also other media that can be used here -- such as freshwater river pebbles (which probably requires more watering), and also those other sorts of rock called 'bue metal' etc. That's just their names. I hear some orchid growers will use that sort of rock for their orchids.

Terry - with the scoria ------ I think they were and still are popular just due to the way that they can hold in some water, but still allow the pot to stay relatively airy within.

Although - it definitely is still possible to make the scoria too wet for long periods of time (where regular roots can drown) ----- so compensation can be applied ---- by adjusting the watering method, or by using shallower pots and good drainage pots.

well done- i have done the same and on plants that are not robust enough to hold the rock, a bit of cork will do the same trick

Thanks DC! Thanks for mentioning cork! I think cork will have nice grip and ultra light.

I will remember to get some cork next time if I encounter the same situation. Excellent idea DC!

Thanks very much. I suspected that the size you use is about the same as the Growstones I use for Cattleyas and Phalaenopsis. I successfully use a smaller size of Growstones for Phrags, Paphs, and Miltoniopsis. I will have to hunt around for the right size stuff where I am.

Most welcome Terry. Thanks for mentioning the smaller size you use for phrags and paphs etc.

For my juvenile paphs and phrags and sedirea, and some juvenile oncidium ---- even baby catts, I use 5 to 8 mm average diameter scoria.

Do you have scoria/lava rock readily available in your area over there Terry?

I attached a pic of juvenile paphs in the 5 to 8 mm average diameter scoria. A couple of little Paph. vietnamense still in their small pots.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1607116988

Hi SouthPark
One thing I have in good supply is lava rock! It is used here for everything: drainage in pots, paths, driveways, mixing with concrete, mulch on top of 'soil' around plants, mixed with asphalt for road surfaces, etc etc.

I've debated with myself about using it for my Phals but I worry that I will damage the roots when I initially pot them in it and then anytime that I might have to repot - the pieces have such sharp edges! In your pics the pieces you use look much smoother/have rounder edges, or is that just the way it appears in the pics?

Most of my Phals are now in S/H using ECP after I discovered I could get ECP in the Cannabis Grow shop, but I like the idea of using a local, natural medium.
I can take a close up of my lava chips tomorrow but for now just a pic of the ever present heap in my garden! :rofl:
https://i.imgur.com/0gR1tlV.jpg

I'm curious about the variegated Monstera - I've read they won't propagate by cuttings, but need to be tissue cultured. Are you rooting a cutting?

Oh geez ------ fuerte rav ----- if I lived next door to you, I'd never have to buy potting media ever again hahahaha.

Fantastic photo. I love the scenic look where you live. Wonderful.

I think scoria can have lots of forms - as volcanic rock is sort of general, but maybe the ones being sold for orchid growing have small little pockets all around ---- that can hold a little water for a while --- but not too much. But the combination of the scoria in the pot can allow the pot to stay humid and damp --- even a little wet --- for a while, and provide orchids enough water to grow nicely.

The scoria I use is locally called quincan gravel ---- pronounced kwing-kun gravel. But people call it scoria too. Some edges are a bit pointy, but never knife sharp. The type of scoria over here is no problem for grabbing with the hands - won't cut skin etc.

If it doesn't cut into skin - the type here ----- then it's ok for orchids. I can take some close-up shots today anyway ---- some good sample shots.


Hi ES! I've seen some youtube videos - time lapse videos of some growers propagating the variegated monstera plants from node cuttings.

I have a feeling that it might be better to have one big massive plant and then take lots of node cuttings (stem cuttings that have a node in the middle), and then attempt to propagate.

I have a feeling that some node cuttings may not grow - even though they're node cuttings. But if there's several (or lots) of node cuttings --- at least some will grow and make it.

So 1 stem node cutting having initially no rooting activity or bulging activity or anything ----- will definitely be a gamble. But many cuttings ----- definitely will lift chances of at least some becoming active and making it.

This nice video made by somebody is quite nice to watch. Just pasting the link for you ES - click here.

The plant in the pic came from a stem node cutting. It's got a good set of roots. Properly established - a proper plant now. I purchased it on ebay.

My ebay strategy was along the lines of ----- safest to purchase a rooted stem cutting - preferrably with leaves coming out of it too, or at least some sprouting activity.

I don't actually like those sellers on ebay selling 1 single new stem node cutting for hundreds of dollars.

It's not due to the 'price' as such. It's due to the possible waste of our money to give them a few hundred bucks for something that could possibly not actually grow at all (eg. waste away, rot and go soft etc). It's probably nicer if us customers pay some price - even if relatively high - but pretty much guaranteed to just go and grow.

Another strategy that I thought of ---- could be to purchase a stem node cutting from a nice ebay seller. One that appears trust-worthy and nice. If it doesn't grow, then to message the seller very diplomatically and nicely to ask to buy a successfully activated node cutting (with activity - roots and expanding node etc). That could work too - but definitely requires a nice seller and customer relation. Some ebay sellers can't be trusted for sure. They ruin it for the many really good sellers out there.

Lava rock around here and online is mostly for gas grills/fireplaces or for landscaping. One I just found is 18-24 mm size particles, red lava rock, $22 US for 4.5 kg! That price is typical for the weight of most things I find online. It has also not been easy to find bulk lava rock of varying sizes. Fortunately not an emergency for me so I can keep exploring.

In the US lava rock / scoria is often sold in bags in the landscaping mulch section of hardware stores or garden shops. If you think it's too large, you can smash it with a hammer. Wear eye protection. I don't think the sharp edges are a problem for Phalaenopsis roots.

That's something I was concerned about when I gave pure scoria a shot a few weeks ago.

With forceps and some patience, I potted this small Phal bellina, and it didn't skip a beat. I keep the rocks slightly humid at all times, and the plant seems to really, really enjoy it!




They actually do propagate very well via cuttings, and in spite of what people say on social media, can be regenerated from tissue culture.

The main issue is that success rate isn't high, yielding more green plants than variegated ones.

Somatic embryogenesis gives extremely good results, and I have some calli forming so I'll be able to experiment with that soon.

Also ------- one possible thing for ebay buyers to ask a seller is whether or not the stem node cutting has those outgrowth features (for the new leaves to develop).

From that same time-lapse video, it's noticed that the stem node cuttings that were eventually successfully propagated ------ all had those buds on them.

The remaining one didn't do anything or much at all ----- but still shows some hope of growing (because it didn't rot --- didn't change to black coloured over the duration of days). Not sure whether that last one actually made it. I wouldn't be surprised that the last one didn't actually make it - even though I think the person making the video mentioned something about a swelling or bump developing later.

Below is a screenshot (image) of the youtube video frame.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1607192528

I think that - if I were to take a punt on inactive stem node cuttings ----- I'd look for those little outgrowths. But rooted stem node cuttings with growing activity will definitely be the best bet.

We have Molida (ground fairly small, we use it instead of sand for horticultural purposes as our local (shell) sand is too fine)
then Picón (pea sized pieces. The spawn of the devil, gets in your sandals, agony, sticks in soles of shoes and scrapes floor tiles, gets in pet's paws - won't have any in my garden!)
then Grava (2 - 3 cm pieces, my heap!)
then Grava grande (4 - 6cm pieces)
then Piedra negro : large pieces for building garden walls etc.

Grava:
https://i.imgur.com/sjSSA69.jpg

Just dug out my last bill. I had 8 cubic metres delivered, 100€. And 40€ of that was the delivery, so about 7.50€ per cubic metre. (That was the 4th delivery in 4 years!)

I've got 2 phals needing repots once I see signs of new root growth so I'll give it a try. I'll start soaking and rinsing some Grava, not sure where on the island this particular batch came from, might be a bit salty.

Also very interested in the Monstera info. I didn't realise you could get variegated ones, never seen them, but love the look of them! I've got a basic green one that's got a bit leggy so I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I've got suitable bits for cuttings - a new project!

Fuerte rav ------ I think your kind is about the same as here. Ours often have extra dirt/soil stuck to it, which isn't fantastic - but it's ok. Your 2 cm size should work excellently.

The kind I use is exactly like in this pic link here: (photo link)
and will just upload it as well in case their link ever changes.

Those outgrowths are the node! In more proper terms, they are "axillary buds".

That's the only spot where the new shoot will grow, without it a stem cutting is useless and will only grow roots.

As some rare variegated Aroids cuttings can retail for a small fortune, better be very careful. Scams are legions.

My 'pot of gold' today!
https://i.imgur.com/Ddnt2MY.jpg

Can't remember ever seeing so many rainbows as we have had this past few weeks. Just wish we had some rain along with them - all we're getting are a few odd spots that don't even join up on the floor.

MFN ----- oh cool! Thanks for commenting about that!!

I previously assumed a monstera node as being the tan/brown woody portion between two green sections of the stem. And I think my assumption is actually correct - as in a 'node' is the intersection of two green sections ----- or rather, where a base of a leaf used to be, or where the leaf was once connected.

But - it appears that those extra features - actual nodules that look like outgrowths ------ are critically important.

This is good, as that will help buyers to really beware of ebay sellers that sell stem cuttings that don't have such outgrowths. Thanks MFN!

I personally would steer clear of sellers selling cuttings with no axillary buds (lateral buds).

Another nice link too (click here).


Fantastic! And beautiful! I'd be digging for sure. That pot of gold is definitely just behind those trees. I saw it first.

Monstera node cuttings and axillary buds
 

Just uploading this image here, which I added a few things to - relating to Monstera cuttings.

http://www.orchidboard.com/community...1&d=1607705271

Well this thread has prompted my to examine my Monstera with a fine toothcomb! (It's not an Alba: until I saw the pic in this thread I didn't even know they existed :lol:)

I have a reasonable size, 3 stem plant indoors but it's getting a bit bare lower down so I was prepared to sacrifice for the greater good of cuttings but I can't find one node of any sort.

Plan 2: I have a giant plant, happily growing in a 'jungle' part of my garden, perhaps I could take a cutting from that. But no, it has about 8 stems from the original tiny plant I put in but the only grow points are one leaf at a time emerging from the end tips. It took me 20 minutes to get in to examine all the stems and even longer to get out! My dog thought it was great fun!

Plan 3: Follow the links SP has posted looking for further inspiration. Possible action: it has bloomed wonderfully this year so tomorrow I'm going to go on an adventure into the undergrowth and see if I have some seed!

https://i.imgur.com/2UTldvN.jpg
the leaves are about 1m long.

https://i.imgur.com/dxnxu0r.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Chjhf0A.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HQmk8MS.jpg

these pics were taken about 3 months ago and I had forgotten to check their progress - we'll see what tomorrow brings!

Is it possible to buy Alba seeds? Do they stay true?

Fuerte Rav ------ oh geezz!!!!!!! That is a beauty of a plant you have there!! A monster of a plant. Hence Monstera (we think!).

Thanks for posting those pics. The leaves are huge, and beautiful - and so is that flower and fruits!

With the albo ----- I read that the albo variegata borsigiana kind of Monstera comes from mutation - and are propagated by taking cuttings. And I think that the sources mentioned something like all the albos are not propagated from seed.

But wouldn't be surprise that if enough are grown from seed - then maybe some of those seeds will have the mutation! Not sure what the stats are though - the probability.

I reckon that in time ---- there will be enough albos around for everybody to share. I think the prices on ebay and everywhere are just inflated. It's kind of ridiculous - when all we're looking for is a reasonably priced cutting or seedling etc and too many jacked-up prices. But I think that if a friend or somebody has a plant ----- can getting cuttings for free ---- as we can see how large these plants can get - like yours!

I was thrilled to see my Monstera's new leaf unfold, but now I just wanna toss it :biggrin:

For each new leaf, there should be one of those infamous axillary buds (note spelling). Sometimes they're not easy to find, but they're easily recognisable.

If you want to try a cutting from that gigantic Monstera, I suggest you to look for tips on "air layering".
This summer I was given a cutting with 3 very big leaves -smaller than yours -, and the few roots were not able to get the water it needed.
It took a solid 2 months for it to make enough roots, and I had to cut a leaf to slow transpiration down.

As far as I'm aware, variegated Monstera were grown from seed just once; during an experiment on mutations induced by gamma radiation.
The other seeds are a scam.


SP - Kinda ridiculous? Have you checked the price for a variegated adansonii recently? :biggrin:

MFN ------ I hadn't checked the price of that one ------ but I will after you gave some heads-up about it. I'll get some foam and pillows etc - in case I fall over or black out hehehehehe

========================

Back again ----- oh geeez ..... I'm just pinching myself right now. I better pinch you too MFN and Fuerte Rav ...... on ebay australia right now --- a 'buy it now' price for a yellow variegated adansonii for nine thousand dollars. 9000. Just thinking of how much Maccas (McDonalds) or KFC I could buy for 9000.

OMG!!

PREORDER monstera adansonii variegated 3 leafs
€2,234.49

But I had to chuckle as this was followed by 'free delivery'. I would bloody well hope so!

Think I'll get my paintbrush out and a pot of white paint ...... :rofl:

Fuerte hahahahaha ........ free, but 'regular' (not express) mail delivery hahaha.

Plan 3 went into action. I found a YouTube by a lady called Hayley which was very helpful. I removed one of the seed pods. It's actually very similar to corn on the cob. Removed about a quarter of the kernels and then wore out my thumbs squashing them to see if they contained seed. Zilch, zilch, zilch, just about to give up when one yielded 3 tiny little white globes. Could these be the start of seeds? The ones I saw in the video were much larger, like a slightly flattened pea. My cobs are about 3 - 4 months old - I think I'm going to leave the others for another couple of months and try again. I have 5 cobs to go so I can try at intervals over quite a long period. I didn't find anything online that gave guidance on how long the seed took to mature in the kernels/cobs.
Forgot to put gloves on before I started the squashing and I've now got black grime under my thumbnails that I cant shift! The flesh of the kernels turns black very quickly when bruised - a bit like peeling sweet potato.

https://i.imgur.com/hBGZByO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7OeBiUg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gW85xRY.jpg

---------- Post added 12-14-2020 at 12:02 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-13-2020 at 11:35 PM ----------

Just looking at the first of these 3 pics and I can see loads of these tiny globes still stuck on the cob as well! Hadn't seen the pic in such a large size until it came up in the post! :rofl:

Fuerte ------ here's a link here that shows some Monstera seeds.

Link

Fuerte! On ebay australia right now ----- oh geeeez ...... when we do a search for "Variegated Monstera adansonii ~ Well Established ~ 25 Leaves Swiss cheese"

Curremtly on 90 bids ........ AUS $20600.00 with 3 days to go. Twenty thousand, six-hundred dollars. What a 'bargain' hehehe.

Actually ------ are they crazy? My answer is yes hehe

I'm scouring all the Mom n Pop places selling plants on our island, council plantings, and peering at everyone's covered terraces of 'houseplants' just in case someone has got one and doesn't realise its' value.......:rofl:

hahahahaha ---- "we've had this for years Fuerte ------ and it has just been taking up so much space ------ it would be wonderful if you could take it out of our hands and free up some of our valuable space" hehehehehe

=========

Update - oh geeez ..... the bidding is at 98 bidders, and 22100 Aussie dollars at this time.

A search on Australia ebay for "Variegated Monstera adansonii ~ Well Established ~ 25 Leaves Swiss cheese"

Ridiculous!!!!!!!!!!!

Just had a look! The form the plant has taken gives hope that there's lots of cuttings to be taken. Could be a good investment for you SP! :rofl:

I'm low key considering getting a cutting and cloning it, but I don't have thousands and thousands of € to invest :biggrin:

hahahaha Fuerte! Nice one!!!!! I'm just a buyer and only buy to keep!

I might allow these people to 'win' their bid though - out of generosity hehehehehe ....... afterall ---- it's xmas time coming up. Would hate to deprive them of their 'dream' (or their investment) hahahaha.

I admire your Seasonal Spirit SP :sleigh:

Thanks Fuerte hahaha. For 22100 Australian dollars, I could also certainly buy a lot of McDonalds and/or KFC hehehe.

Happy xmas and new year in advance !! :snow::hny::decoratetree::HOXmasX036:

Update - 117 bids now ------ highest bid at this time is Australian $28800 hehe

You'd think they'd offer free delivery with Santa! :sleigh:

I bet the bidders are intending to cut it up and move it on ......

And Season's Greetings to you as well. Have a great Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year.

:decoratetree::hny: :beach: :surfing:

Fuerte hahaha! I think you're onto it! One entrepreneur bidder, or one relatively rich bidder, or a syndicate, or one bidder that is going to be eating ants and grass from the garden for the next ten years or so.

And thanks for the wonderful words and wishes!!!!!!!