How could I save my orchids? Brassavolas with black rot and bacterial brown rot?

[meriadeliade]

Hi orchid growers!

I ordered some orchids a few weeks ago, and two specimens were sick at the time they arrived. I quarantined all the new orchids, but I am new to the hobby, and I would like to ask for your help.*

I don't have a proper growing space or a separate quarantine room... so I placed them in a room that has only one small eastern rooftop window. I can't measure the exact humidity, but since I live in a continental climate in a city, I think it is rather low... I'm pretty sure these conditions couldn't be more different from those in the nursery, but all my other rooms have plants, and I don't want to risk their health.

I think the Brassavola nodosa is very sick. It had a few dark-brown/blackish rotten spots on the leaves when it arrived. After the first watering, these rotten spots started to become larger, and also, new spots developed. The plant came in tightly stuffed, pure sphagnum moss and remained wet for a long time. So I tried to handle the problem, but I am sure I made some serious blunders...

Since the rot started to spread after the first watering, I decided to remove the wet media. The plant was out of the pot for a week, but I left some moss around, leaving it very airy and slightly moist. I noticed that most of the roots were gone, but I didn't want to bother them for a few days.

When I repot this orchid, I cut the rotten roots, but when I was removing the dead tissues and the leftover moss, I saw that some of these dead roots even had small tubers, which is certainly not normal (sorry, I couldn't take any photos of that, but they were the same color as the rot, solid, and about the size of a pea).*This is when it became obvious to me that even some rhizomes are affected, and the infection is more serious than I expected.*

I sprayed the remaining root system with hydrogen peroxide, put the plant in fresh media and watered it, probably making a big mistake. One week later, the media seems to be dry, but the rot is still spreading. I also realized that I put the older rhizomes too deep in the media and lost the older leaves due to that... What a stupid step...

I suppose the disease may be black rot. I am not sure, but I think the symptoms indicate that. Also, I found a paper (https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdf/PP/PP26000.pdf) that shows the white mycelium of the fungus on wounds. I have the same issue. I made a picture of that as well.

I'm a bit less worried about my Brassavola David Sander (on the blue tray in the picture). It has some small brown spots, but for me it seems to be a different infection. These spots started to spread after repotting, and by now, most of the affected leaves have dropped. The plant is a young specimen and has only four leaves left, and I am afraid to cut them because the only healthy leaves are still developing.

Could you please give me any suggestions on how to treat these infections?

Do you think it is necessary to find a new quarantine with better conditions to help the orchids cope with the disease, or can I try to heal them where they are now?
Should I treat the B. David Sander with a systemic fungicide? Or is it a bacterial problem?
Shall I remove the B. nodosa from the pot and cut away all the infected areas? I have read posts on Orchidboard and many growers suggest doing so and giving the healthy part a chance for a new life without the rotten tissues.


I would be happy to read any kind of advice from you. Many thanks!

[Roberta]

First, Welcome!

I hope that you got photos before your "surgery" ... you should have contacted the seller immediately. (Peroxide tends to kill roots... here, the problem was there from the beginning but...) Now that you have treated the plants, the seller can claim that you, not them, were the cause of the problem. You should not accept clearly diseased plants. Try contacting the seller... an ethical one will try to make this right but don't be surprised if, at this point they weasel out of their responsibility.

[estación seca]

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

What are your growing conditions? Temperature day/night? Humidity? What kind of light do they get? What State do you live in?

Brassavolas are very high light orchids. They aren't going to be happy in a cold northern winter window with natural light.

[Shadeflower]

Originally Posted by meriadeliade

I would be happy to read any kind of advice from you. Many thanks!

I'm the more pessimistic member here, so my opinion is just that. Others will say where there is green there is hope.

Me, I know how fragile seedlings are. They either grow or they die. There's not much in between like with adult plants that can stagnate, not bloom but at least they carry on growing. With seedlings everything has to be right and providing right orchid care takes a few years to figure out in most cases.

So the steps to take are

1. get flowering sized plants to start with
2. Take care of them for a year and observe how they do in your care
3. If they grow perfectly and flower well you can get some seedlings.
4. Aim to get at least 4 seedlings as a majority of seedlings never really thrive. This is something that doesn't get discussed too much but when seedlings get replated in the flask it is good practice to get rid of plants that are set back. Not all nurseries do this and you might end up with smaller seedlings that are more prone to disease and don't grow as fast.
I mention this from my own past mistakes. 1 seedling is never enough imo. They are cheap for a reason. You need to buy several to get 1 good one. It still makes sense because you get to pick the best seedling to keep but with 1 seedling things can and do often go wrong unfortunately.

Once things go wrong with a seedling there is rarely any saving them, they are tiny, everything is tiny. Once you can take care of the flowering sized orchids which are far tougher and learn how to grow them well then you are ready for seedlings.

You have seen first hand how easy they can go from being good looking to flop. I'm sure some will offer meaningful advice on how to grow them but there is too much to cover in a forum post, it comes down to what growing orchids has taught you so far.

I honestly thought having grown a few phals that seedlings would be ok and I've had great success with some, some have grown well whereas others have stayed small and some I lost entirely.

I don't think there is much remedy once a seedling gets an active infection.

You might want to investigate why it has happened - how to prevent it happening in future, but I would agree with Roberta that maybe the seller had weak plants hat were not packaged well in transport.

All things to consider. Finding a good shop is part of the challenge of building up a good collection

[meriadeliade]

Thank you for all your replies.

At the time they arrived I did not write to the nursery because the infections did not seem to be serious, I thought they were only remaining signs of problems that were already treated in the nursery, and I hoped the orchids would recover quickly after transport. I didn't notice it was black rot on the B. nodosa (can you please confirm it is?). According to their homepage they accept complaints within 3 days from the date of delivery, but the thing started to go worse after 5-6 days.

I know it was the first huge mistake that I didn't report this problem immediately to them, and now I have already learned a lot... Next time I will be faster to react and document everything.
I know they have all the right to refuse any assistance because I have already replanted them, and my conditions in the quarantine room are far from ideal. I completely understand if they won't help. I'm not expecting them to do so because I'm sure my improper care is vastly intensifying the problem. I will write to them anyway. At most, they will be informed that they sent two sick plants, at least one of which is seriously infectious.

So my last hope is to cure them somehow

I live in Central Europe in a temperate zone. There is one small eastern rooftop window, the plants don't get direct sunlight. Temperatures move around 20-22 °C (68-72 °F) with a mild drop during the night and the early afternoon. Do you think it would be a good idea to raise the temperature?
The room has low light and humidity levels, but this was the best place for quarantine now. However, if you say that increasing light levels or humidity could help the healing process, I will try to find a new place for them.*

I planned to move the new orchids to my room later, that one is warmer and receives more sunlight, but I am scared to do this before the treatment because I have other orchids there.

Do you think that I should try to improve growing conditions first, or should I intervene quickly by cutting the affected rhizomes and only then put the saved part in a better place?

---------- Post added at 03:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 AM ----------

Thanks, I will definitely avoid buying young plants in the near future. But still, this little plant seems to have two new, healthy growths, and maybe for this reason, I am more worried about the B. nodosa.*

[Roberta]

I suggest trying to improve conditions, and observe them first... If you see signs of new growth, that would be great. Do keep them away from your other orchids, if it is actually disease. If the damaged areas dry up and don't spread, that would be great. Cuts are permanent, if you make a mistake you can't put it back... if you cut anything you need to be sure that the plant has enough good tissue to maintain itself. So for now, observe. Orchids don't do anything fast.

[meriadeliade]

Thank you for the advice