My orchid pond.

[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by Vanda lover

I had a beautiful, big shubunkin a few years ago. It bred with one of my koi and produced some pretty offspring. My friend in Ontario still has 2 of them. I have heard that this cross will not reproduce. I only keep koi now because I want them pure if they breed.

The white cyms are common here. I am not fond of white after living in a rural area in a snow belt.

That sounds amazing.
I wish I could see its offspring.

I don't know why it would be sterile... koi and shubunkin are essentially different variants of the same carp.

Hmm...
I'm not to interested in keeping the offspring. So purity isn't much of an issue.

[Ordphien]

My green cymbidium has lightened significantly.
I think it's the sun.
It's warming up alot, but the tree that would block the mid day sun still hasn't broken out of dormancy.

[Vanda lover]

Originally Posted by Ordphien

That sounds amazing.
I wish I could see its offspring.

I don't know why it would be sterile... koi and shubunkin are essentially different variants of the same carp.

Hmm...
I'm not to interested in keeping the offspring. So purity isn't much of an issue.

I'm not sure that the lady who told me that hybrid koi can't breed is right. There are some breeds of gold fish like sarassa that have koi in them. They are very closely related and the ginrins were created by adding a German mirror koi.

Your green cym is pretty. I used to have a similar one.

[Ordphien]

Originally Posted by Vanda lover

I'm not sure that the lady who told me that hybrid koi can't breed is right. There are some breeds of gold fish like sarassa that have koi in them. They are very closely related and the ginrins were created by adding a German mirror koi.

Your green cym is pretty. I used to have a similar one.

Interesting...
It might be possible.
I don't know. Sounds unlikely to me though...
I thought sarassa were hibuna that developed longer tails... I didn't know they had koi in them.
I thought all the torpedo body goldfish were variants off hibuna for the most part.


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[Vanda lover]

I looked up sarassa some time ago and read that they have koi in them. I'll look around on the internet again and see what I can find.

[Ordphien]

Lol. These goldfish lines can be so convoluted...
I wish you luck.

My basic understanding is livestock carp showed signs of gold coloration.
Which they further bred and produced koi.
At this point I'm not sure if the goldfish developed from the same breeding line as the koi, or if the first goldfish were bred from the koi.
After that hibuna was created.
After a while a hibuna with a calico pattern appeared and was dubbed shubunkin.
In the same stroke ones with split tails appeared in the hibuna and were called wakin, jikin are specifically colored wakin.
Watonai are wakin with longer tails, sarassa are hibuna with long tails.
So on and so forth.

So the way I understood it (which isn't very well lol) they are all essentially variants of the hibuna.

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[Vanda lover]

I couldn't find anything on whether the Sarassa has koi in it. I'm pretty certain that goldfish are a separate carp, though. Even their behavior is quite different than koi. I don't believe that koi are quite as hardy and they prefer the water to be a little warmer.

[Vanda lover]

Originally Posted by Ordphien

Lol. These goldfish lines can be so convoluted...
I wish you luck.

My basic understanding is livestock carp showed signs of gold coloration.
Which they further bred and produced koi.
At this point I'm not sure if the goldfish developed from the same breeding line as the koi, or if the first goldfish were bred from the koi.
After that hibuna was created.
After a while a hibuna with a calico pattern appeared and was dubbed shubunkin.
In the same stroke ones with split tails appeared in the hibuna and were called wakin, jikin are specifically colored wakin.
Watonai are wakin with longer tails, sarassa are hibuna with long tails.
So on and so forth.

So the way I understood it (which isn't very well lol) they are all essentially variants of the hibuna.

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What I did find out is that goldfish are mutations of Crucian carp and Koi are from common cyprinus carpio. So they are a separate species.

[Ordphien]

I was just schooled pretty hardcore on goldfish by my uncle.
And they are indeed separate species, that produce sterile offspring.


And he went into great detail over the lineage of the different goldfish types.
My basic understanding of the types is essentially correct.
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[Vanda lover]

That is interesting. I have noticed differences in the personality between the koi and goldfish. Koi are less aggressive, less likely to eat their young and less likely to pick on sick or injured fish. Koi also become much tamer. Mine let me pet them.