And I knew better.....WARNING

[kavanaru]

Silla-Glamour,

maybe you are right about your nursery, but the problem is that often those other nurseries aver indeed very aware of the situation with CITES, Phytosanitary Permits, import and export certificates.. and they just ignore them...

I can tell you why I stopped buying from asian vendors in ebay. 2 tries, all bad experiences:

1.- Bought a plant I could only find in Ebay from a vendor in Singapore. I checked in advance for permits, and even paid for Cites and Phytosanitary certificates. I had an import permit here. Finally, after a long month (needed for obtaining the permits), the plant arrived... no permits at all included, and "Thai Dolls" declared... Luckily I could show the people at the customs all e-mails, bill for CITES and Phytosanitary and import permit... I received no fines and was told I could keep the plant (which, by the way, was obviously wild collected!). I felt not confortable with the plant and the plant was donated to the botanical garden. I tried to contact the nursery, even complain via ebay, but they just disappeared...

2.- Decided to give a second try, this tiem Thailand, same procedure as above... plant never arrived, no refunds... Ebay and Paypal reply: that person deleted his/her account we cannot track it...

you mention that USDA and other agencies have mistaken hybrids as species.. but... How do you differentiate a hybrid from a species, without flowers? sometimes with flowers it is also difficult... On teh other hand, CITES is very clear, and a permit is needed for both hybrids and species... Yes, I do not agree with how CITES is applied in some places (especially not in the USA), but hey.. that's the current law...

Unfortunately, due to those irresponsible nurseries, all asian nurseries are placed in the same pot... I hate cliches, but this is the way they are created (same as all latinos being drug dealers, all USAmerican being ignorants and stupid, and many others!)

I know some serious asian nurseries, and I do buy from them, but not via Ebay. Some of them can provide CITES and Phytosanitary, some of them cannot. In this last case however, they come from time to time to Europe, or can send plants with other nurseries coming to europe. That's now my way to get asian plants....

[vmax3000]

Originally Posted by kavanaru

you mention that USDA and other agencies have mistaken hybrids as species.. but... How do you differentiate a hybrid from a species, without flowers?

Or in my case, the plant was declared as silk...yeah, the USDA may have some strict rules, but come on....silk?!? The inspector won't notice.....

[camille1585]

Originally Posted by kavanaru

Unfortunately, due to those irresponsible nurseries, all asian nurseries are placed in the same pot...

My thoughts exactly. There are good asian nurseries out there, but it's difficult to weed them out from the many bad ones on ebay.

I'm sometimes appauled at some of the listing on ebay over here. Asian sellers still appear in the list even when I select "EU only" and I've seen some sellers write absolute nonsense like "You don't need CITES for hybrids" or another wrote "sorry we don't ship to ___ country (germany I think it was) because the plants don't always arrive there."
Stuff like that could get innocent buyers into a heap of trouble!

I've heard too many ebay stories like what Ramon tells. If I want stuff from Asia one day, I'm going to get reputable addresses through orchid clubs and forums. That way I'll know what I'm dealing with!

[etex]

Ramon-This ignorant and stupid US American does not appreciate the" cliche" or would bigotry be a better term? I am sure Latinos would feel the same way. I come to this forum because I have a passion for orchids and not to be insulted by your cliche examples.

[camille1585]

Originally Posted by etex

Ramon-This ignorant and stupid US American does not appreciate the" cliche" or would bigotry be a better term? I am sure Latinos would feel the same way. I come to this forum because I have a passion for orchids and not to be insulted by your cliche examples.

I don't see anything wrong in what he said (and I'm American too). Those clichés are exactly that, and I think Ramon meant for them to just serve as examples of how a few bad apples ruin it for everyone else.
Now let's play nice. Like you say, this is a place for orchids!

[Ranchnanny]

Sheridan

[Ranchnanny]

I agree with Camille!!

Sheridan

[kavanaru]

Originally Posted by etex

Ramon-This ignorant and stupid US American does not appreciate the" cliche" or would bigotry be a better term? I am sure Latinos would feel the same way. I come to this forum because I have a passion for orchids and not to be insulted by your cliche examples.

Oops! Diane, I am really really sorry and apolize for the misunderstanding, but you should read my post carefully

My intention was not to insult anyone, and I started saying that I hate clichés. I am Latino, and on purpose I started with a cliché I have to deal with all the time (e.g arriving at JFK, showing my german passport and immediatelly being taken to a room and checked for drugs, because it is written in my passport that I was born in Venezuela, or at the Frankfurt Airpot because my flight was making the "drug path": Lima-Bogota-Caracas-Frankfurt)

As I mentionned, those are clichés and I do not agree with them, but lots of people do.

Once more, my apologies if my message was misunderstood, as it was not my intention to insult anyone...

Same as you, I come to this forum because of my passion for orchids, and because we have a great folk here...

[vmax3000]

Gosh,
I didn't read any disparaging comment on Americans in Ramon's post at all.

[etex]

Oops,too! Thank you for your explanation,Ramon! Sorry for overreacting to your comment and taking it the wrong way! The fact that I had a really bad day yesterday was no excuse for my rudeness! I apologize!