Species and what to know as you buy them?

[DaylightFirefly]

As an inexperienced gardener I am curious, what questions should I ask a seller/shop as I am looking to buy a species orchid?

Most online sellers provide as much as a name of the plant and a price. I am now at the point where I make sure I know:
- the physical size of the plant;
- is it a meristem;
- does it or parents had/have awards.

Do I need to ask about exact parents of the seeds or a plant? How important is it to know polyploidy of the plant I am getting?

I really appreciate opinions and suggestions of all members of this community. It was for some time now and stays a very interesting and helpful source of information and peers support!

Thank you!

[Roberta]

For orchid species, you can get lots of information on the Internet Orchid Species Photo Encyclopedia (IOSPE). The temperature icons are mostly useless, you need to go to the text. There, you will see information about where the plant comes from, and elevation (which tell you a lot about temperature needs). That habitat knowledge is, to me, an important part of the excitement of learning about orchids. Some of the descriptions also give indication of size.

You can get information about parentage of hybrids from Orchidroots

For awards, the national societies (AOS, RHS, etc). To get access to the AOS info, it's necessary to be a member.

Is it a meristem? Good question. If it is a named cultivar (the part of the name in single quotes) it's either a division or a clone of the mother plant (genetically identical) if it is correctly labeled. Big "if"... people play fast and loose with naming conventions on labels.

[DaylightFirefly]

Originally Posted by Roberta

Is it a meristem? Good question. If it is a named cultivar (the part of the name in single quotes) it's either a division or a clone of the mother plant (genetically identical) if it is correctly labeled. Big "if"... people play fast and loose with naming conventions on labels.

Thank you for you response! It helps to learn, how to approach orchid growing process and where to find reliable information.

I am sorry, I was not clear in my original post. What questions should or can I ask a seller or a shop?

I have read about polyploidy for example and it looks like even species can be 2N or 3N. How important is this for me as a grower to know? If at all.

With meristem.. I agree with you Roberta, that not always seedlings will be properly marked, but if I trust established relationship with a shop or a grower, I would want to know this in order to know, what to expect.

[Roberta]

Let's drop back to some definitions to clarify what you might be asking.
Orchid species exist in nature. They come from distinct habitats and knowing about those can help you determine the care that a given species requires. A species tag may indicate a cross between two cultivars (specific plants), if both are the same species, it's still a species. (Line breeding of a species is breeding select individuals to gain desired characteristics)

Most of the orchids that you will encounter in a shop (and a lot online and at shows) are hybrids - different species crossed for particular characteristics. Often these are easier to grow, because they inherit characteristics from different parents that may broaden the environment that they need. Hybrids can, of course, be mixed and matched to make ever more complex hybrids.

If an orchid has more than the standard 2 sets of chromosomes, the flowers may be bigger, rounder, etc. Occasionally this occurs randomly, but more often it's encouraged by chemical treatment of the the baby orchids. 4 n (double the normal 2 sets) can breed. 3 n (3 sets of chromosomes) usually can't (mules) but may still have the aesthetic "improvements".

As you can see, this can become complicated. As a new grower, the understanding of it all develops slowly. (No only do orchids teach patience for growing, but there is a lifetime of learning, can't do it all at once...) You need to get familiar with the different broader types, and focus on meeting their needs. (Cattleya, Phalaenopsis, Oncidium, Paphiopedilum are all types that you will encounter easily, and have different needs)

If you buy from the original grower, you are more likely to get good culture information than if you buy from someone who is just reselling. But do your research, and acquire slowly. Welcome to the addiction. (I started with one Cymbidum from a co-worker, and if you look around my website you'll see where THAT can lead.)

[DaylightFirefly]

Originally Posted by Roberta

If an orchid has more than the standard 2 sets of chromosomes, the flowers may be bigger, rounder, etc. Occasionally this occurs randomly, but more often it's encouraged by chemical treatment of the the baby orchids. 4 n (double the normal 2 sets) can breed. 3 n (3 sets of chromosomes) usually can't (mules) but may still have the aesthetic "improvements".

I completely agree with you. It is a complex topic.
Referring to the quote above…Can species be 3N? Or is it impossible and only hybrids can be 3N?

I apologize in advance for my questions. I have read an article that states that species can be 3N. Species in wild nature can only be 2N as per the same article. I want to understand this better. Articles without proper credentials can be bogus. Please free me of my doubts.

Thank you again!

[Roberta]

Sure, species can be 3N. That's what you'll tend to get if you cross a 2N with a 4N. As long as both are the same species, the result is still the species. This could happen in nature because tetraploids can occur by chance and are likely to then breed with a "normal" diploid. Since "chance" tetraploids are pretty rare, this scenario would also be rare.
Of course, when humans get into the act the odds increase. With species as well as hybrids.

In general, "never" and "always" shouldn't be applied to orchids, expect exceptions. (Actually, they aren't particularly useful concepts for anything)

A 4N plant crossed with another 4N (or itself) is likely to produce tetraploid offspring. Not always, but usually. (This would apply to species and hybrids alike)

[DaylightFirefly]

Roberta, thank you for your help! I really appreciate it.
Some clarity and more food for thought.

[plantxart]

Are you looking to breed with your plants? Then, ploidy would matter. Also, if you're looking to get an award for a previously unawarded plant. The AOS judging has a preference for fuller, bigger and rounder flowers. 4n or tetraploid plants will you an advantage. Although I have seen exceptional breeding done with diploid plants

---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 PM ----------

There was a Cattleya breeder that bred amazing tetraploid amethystoglossa, but then always crossed them with diploid and would only sell the triploid so nobody would get a jump start in his breeding.

[Roberta]

If a 3N occurs in nature (a chance 4N mating with a normal 2N) it likely would be the end of the line for the genetics of that 4N plant since 3Ns are usually sterile. (The offspring won't breed) To get a chance natural 4N crossing with another chance natural 4N (to have 4N offspring) you'd have to win the genetic lottery twice... odds extremely low. So those natural 4N's will tend to stay rare and natural 3Ns equally rare.

When humans manipulate the ploidy, of course having a 4N x 4N is much more common, something that breeders do by plan, and production of 3Ns also by plan.