Media got wet, roots stalled

[SouthPark]

Mook ..... a working procedure is great. As in - if somebody holds-off on watering and it works reliably (all of the time), then excellent.

It is the other thing ---- the fact --- that other growers have no issue or problem when they water lightly, which an orchid growing 'exponent' should look into ----- to try understand what the mechanisms are - that consistently creates the issue versus that consistently do not create the issue.

I don't mean you Mook. I mean somebody like isurus79.

Water was definitely involved here. That's for sure. I reckon it was due to roots being cold and wet and oxygen starvation might have been occurring too. I don't know the exact conditions of your environment. But it takes some amount of time ------ for noticing or observing the first signs of root issue (stalling etc).

I also mentioned a few times, that in the wild, an unexpected or expected rain shower isn't going to wipe out catasetums. And roots are meant to handle some water. It all depends on temperature too I guess, and what the orchid is growing in.

[mook1178]

I use very lightly packed sphagnum moss. Lightly packed enough to have empty spaces in the pot. Oxygen depletion will not happen in 36 hours in that case, likely not at all as the action of water falling through the pot will draw in oxygen replete air. There is not enough bacteria to draw the oxygen down. As a chemical oceanographer studying anoxic waters, I am confident in that assessment. So that can be ruled out.

My room temps are in the 60's and the pots will get warm to the touch in the afternoon with the sun shining on them. So temps can be ruled out.

The pots sit in a southern facing window with no obstruction, curtains or trees. Light levels can be ruled out.

I added about half a cup of water accidentally to the media. I noticed within 72 hours that growth had stalled. In another 72 hours I noticed the green tips of the roots touching the top of the media begin to decline and the root tips not touching the media begin to grow away from the media. Within 7 days those green tips were tiny and some had disappeared. The roots with green tips had stopped growing at this point. A few days later the whole growth had begin to grow again. The only thing I can attribute to this was the water. Was it the amount of water? Could be. Will we ever really be able to say 1 oz of water is ok and 2 oz of water is too much? Chances are very slim as, even you point out, growing conditions are a major factor.

I, now, from my own experience will suggest waiting as long as possible.

[SouthPark]

Mook ----- I'm with you on your procedure. It's because the procedure can work reliably. Totally for it.

My take on it was really about the comment that isurus79 was saying, about water (eg. just touching newly emerging roots) will kill them, and the plant. My opinion on that - no way, unless growing parameters (temperature etc) are out of range.

[mook1178]

Also in regards to unexpected rain showers, Just because they plant is not killed, does not mean it is not set back due to early rains. There are anomalies all the time in ecosystems that have negative effects on the populations. Not bad enough to wipe them out, but enough to cause a set back in growth for the season.

If it rains too much in antartica during the penguin fledgling season, many of the fledglings die. This is a set back to the population as a whole. Catastrophic to the population? No, unless it persists for many years, but one reproductive season won't have much of an effect in the long term.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:28 PM ----------

I have a few roots that stalled. Are they dead? Don't know yet. Functionally, they are not doing anything.

Would they have died if I continued to water that same amount? My guess from what happened would be yes.

[SouthPark]

Originally Posted by mook1178

I have a few roots that stalled. Are they dead? Don't know yet. Functionally, they are not doing anything.

Would they have died if I continued to water that same amount? My guess from what happened would be yes.

My prediction would be yes too. What I'm doing on the other hand is to move toward a path for providing some certainty for cases (eg. above a certain growing temperature, avoiding oxygen starvation issues, etc) where other people can repeat ------ which consistently do not stall or kill roots and/or the orchid. It's not about a need to water early. It's about the question of whether or not water merely touching newly emerging roots (even a little bit) actually causes them to stall, or die etc - even when growing temperatures are ideal (and when golden rules of orchid growing such as preventing oxygen starvation in roots are followed). My view on it is ------- it's a myth.

[mook1178]

I was in ideal temp range, ideal light, and ideal media. I added water and roots stalled. Doesn't sound like a myth to me. I truly think it is the amount of water added. Had I misted the media, I probaly wouldn't have had an issue.

Definitely not a myth though.

[SouthPark]

Mook. But you accidentally dumped half a glass or something of water into the sphagnum moss, right? I'm just taking your word that you put just half a cup of water in there, instead of much more. I wouldn't have expected you to make that sort of mistake, as in watering when you had purposely planned to avoid it for a particular plant in your collection. But mistakes can happen obviously - so that's ok.

Some photos of the roots and media condition would definitely be fantastic for cases like this. Not only from this episode, but future episodes ----- from anybody. That will be about information gathering - temperature, watering method, media, how much water in the media at the time of problem, photos ---- detailed photos of roots and media etc.

But the question is still going to be. Why some people get affected, while other people never get affected? That is, ones that aren't creating too soggy a media etc when the plant is coming out of true dormancy, and when temperatures are great.

The thing is ..... it would be interesting to see what the media and roots look like when issues like this occur. So that would allow us to assess the state of the media and roots for that condition. And if that's not it, then proceed along another path to find out the mechanism involved ----- as in why some growers never get that same issue (ie. the ones that keep the media lightly moist only, and temperature in good range).

[mook1178]

Originally Posted by mook1178

I truly think it is the amount of water added. Had I misted the media, I probaly wouldn't have had an issue.

I truly understand your position. It is not a myth as it happened to me apparent in this thread. There will be no way to tell how much water is too much without rigourous testing that no hobbyist would be able to achieve to be definitive.

Obviously, in their natural habitat they get some moisture from the humidity and fog. Too mimick this is a lot of work for most hobbyists, probably more than most would want to do. I surely do not want to spend every morning misting the media. I think that is why the best advice is to not water. There are always exceptions.

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[SouthPark]

That's ok Mook. If it happens ever again by accident, grab some before shots too ----- detailed ones, aside from the after shots. You have photos after stabilisation or recovery, but no before shots.

[mook1178]

It's not going to look any different than what I posted. I can promise you that.