just how COMPLEX is that hybrid? - Orchid Board

DirtyCoconuts · #1 04-01-2020, 02:53 PM

a comment from a recent thread got my wheels turning and i wanted to get a conversation rolling on the topic.

I am putting it here for two reasons, i will be using my catasteums as my first examples and two, it is a nicely cultivated alliance in that some really great growers are doing the hybridizing now so we have the benefit of almost first hand transparency.

So these are the tags on most of my plants in this group

each one a cross of a multiple crossed hybrid...

(caveat) i am NOT a taxonomist nor am i good at the whole labelling thing, sorry if this is really simple and dumb

...so it becomes increasingly important that we know the particular 'var.' (if that is the correct name for the part in the single quotes)so we can know the dispositions and tendencies, correct? Is it certain that the plant will behave the same way all the time or will it be susceptible to variation over time?

My experience (limited to 5 years on the oldest of these plants) is that the plant blooms and grows the same way once it is "born" and that the variation is only random in the way the plant is propagated, is that accurate? sort of like a person.

My thinking then went into the changes over time in a particular hybrid...as in, if you seed a new cross of the same parents then that is a new 'var.' but if you clone it should be the exact same plant, correct?

does anyone know of a website that provides longer than parent genealogical charts for these or do i just have to keep going up the chain manually? looking up each parent and their parents etc?

this brings me to the other thought i was wrestling with...since the hybrids tend to be more adaptable than their species parents, does that extend the further a gene is hybridized? like is a fifth generation hybrid an easier plant to grow (in general) than a third generation?

Tags by J Solo, on Flickr

fishmom · #2 04-01-2020, 03:55 PM

The site you want is BlueNanta. You will find the percentage of each species in the background of a registered hybrid.
OrchidRoots

DirtyCoconuts · #3 04-01-2020, 04:00 PM

thanks! i will check that out

Afid · #4 04-01-2020, 04:05 PM

I use BlueNanta/orchidroots a lot too, it is super useful for figuring out what species are in the background of you plants!

Roberta · #5 04-01-2020, 05:28 PM

One more note... the part of the name in single quotes is the cultivar - a name given to a particular plant. There's no registry of those unless the plant is awarded - since the results of a hybrid can be as variable as the children of the same parents (only more so, a seed cross can give hundreds of baby plants, fortunately children come in smaller quantities) it's a way to identify the exact one that was used. (Beyond awards, one can name any particular plant whatever one wants, but it has no official status) If a plant is cloned (so that all of the offspring are at least theoretically genetically identical to the parent) then the cultivar name carries through to those offspring.

The term variety "var." really applies only to species, and indicates a particular population that is distinct but not distinct enough to be a separate species. (The term is often misused for various colors and patterns, for those the correct term is actually form "f.", or Latin forma, Picky, picky...)

DirtyCoconuts · #6 04-02-2020, 10:47 AM

this is super helpful, Roberta, as always...thank you

isurus79 · #7 04-11-2020, 11:23 PM

Not sure how I missed this thread. Anyway, a complex hybrid involves more than two species in the background. Intergenerics involve two or more genera and seem to be exceptionally forgiving of growing conditions in Catasetinae, even more so that a complex hybrid involving on one genus. I think the other questions were answered already.

Ray · #8 04-12-2020, 09:19 AM

It's a minor point, but I don't believe cultivar epithets are ever truly "registered" (unless, perhaps, when a plant patent is applied for). When it comes to awards, it is "recorded" - not "registered", per se.

Society has "agreed" that the RHS runs the official international orchid registry of ALL hybrids. There is no such single entity for cultivars, making it possible that a grower in the US and a grower in England could name their own cultivars of the same plant 'William Smith'.

DirtyCoconuts · #9 04-12-2020, 10:11 AM

Thanks, Steve!

That was the heart of my original question.

Keysguy · #10 04-12-2020, 11:33 AM

DC-----
I see you have offspring of a couple of my all time SVO favs; Frilly Doris (I love that name) and Painted Desert.

Enjoy!