living section on rotted roots

[mook1178]

I have roots that rotted in sections. I pulled all the rrotted material off of the roots and now have sections of velamin on the acutal roots. Should I cut the entire root off still or allow the healthy sections to remain? I am transferring to water culture. I plan on soaking for an hour a day until I see new roots beginning to grow.

I have very low humidity in the house right now and think that this is the best way to keep humidity around the root system.

[emmajs243]

Let me start by saying, I am definitely no expert BUT I have seen this on my rescue Phals before where the root has a dead section and then a live section. One of my current rescue Phals actually has the majority of root growth happening on roots like this that I left.

But, I will say, In my mind, it probably would come down to the plant. I am guessing your orchid is a Phal because those are really the only orchids I have heard that are able to do this. But beyond that, if the orchids root system is in really great health with lots of plump roots that turn bright green when watering, I may go ahead and cut the couple dead/live roots off, or at least the worst looking ones. To me, I know the orchid has lots of additional roots to keep itself hydrated and nourished so trimming a couple half dead ones wouldn't be a big deal.

However, if they are like a grocery store or rescue Phal and there roots aren't in good shape to start with, I would leave the roots. For example, my rescue Phal has probably half of the minimum amount of roots I would want to see on a plant it's size. In addition, the roots it does have aren't in the best of shape and definitely don't look like plump beautiful roots. In addition, nearly half of its remaining roots are in this dead/live condition. IN ADDITION, the ONLY new root growth that is happening on this Phal is from these dead/live roots. In a case like this, I would and did leave the roots because from my observations, trimming them would be far more harm then good. So If your orchid doesn't have a good amount of other roots and/or if they don't appear to be in the best health, I would leave the dead/live roots because the orchid is going to rely on these roots a lot more then a plant with lots of healthy roots. Plus, many have mentioned that if you plant doesn't have very many roots that you can actually leave a few dead ones to help "stabilize" the plant in its new Potting setup. To me, I would prefer to leave them and hope the plant gets SOME sort of nourishment from them.

Now I will say, I would wait for a few experts to chime in before making a decision on whether or not to cut the roots. I personally have wondered, if there is a dead portion of root in between the plant and the living portion of root, is the plant still able to even get the nourishment from these roots? Does that make sense? I can't give you the answer to this one, hopefully someone else might be able to though!

I will say I have heard some say that Phals roots can still live and help the plant when they are like this but any other type of orchid, the roots are just going to die. I can't be certain if this is true or not, just what I have heard some growers say.

Hopefully this kinda helps to give you a point of view to help you make your decision in the case nobody else chimes in. BUT this is just the way I think through it and I am one to play it safe and not cut when in doubt!

[mook1178]

I wonder the same thing if the live section of roots actually help. But since you are saying that when you have left the live section and gotten new roots growing from those sections, I think that they must be helping.

Yes, this is a Phal. It is not a rescue or BBS. It is actually a Yu Pin Natsume. I bought it in November and arrived in really good condition actually. However, I am new and know that I tend to over water and this Phal was packed in sphag. So I repotted in bark and still over watered or didn't wait long enough for the breaks to heal before overwatering. I am not really sure. Either way I got rot.

I now have it bare root in a vase trying to keep humidity around the roots, but also allowing it to breath. I am soaking them for a few hours a day until I see new root growth. Then I will begin to figure out a soak/dry regimen for water culture.

I see a basal keiki beginning and a secondary spike from the cut spike that it came with. I am hoping that this is not a last ditch effort.

[emmajs243]

I sure hope not too! FYI I just found one of the stickys on the beginners discussion labeled something along the lines of "using skewers to know when to water" I think this is a GREAT idea and have just started using it! As a fellow newbie it is so easy to overwater and so hard to know when you need to water! This seems like a great way to really know what is going on in the pot!

Also! I totally hate getting orchids in sphag moss! It definitely has times when it is a life saver but it is NOT very forgiving for newbies! And, if it has been packed too tightly, there is just no good way to handle that besides just about repotting!

But ya, my rescue Phal ONLY has root growth going on from roots with dead sections so I see your meaning! A part of me wonders if maybe the roots are just surviving completely on their own from what they are absorbing and they will soon die....but to me, that doesn't make as much sense as it helping the plant.

My Phal has been getting soaked/sprayed daily for almost a month probably while I am waiting for brand new root tips to develop. I finally see some just barely starting but, over the past month, there has been root tips from dead sections that were originally there that I left and they have continued to grow and there are more root tips that have started from dead roots and have grown substantially!

Since your plants roots aren't in the best shape, I personally would leave the root tips, even if it is just a hope that they will help, it at least gives the plant more of a chance in my mind!

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------

Oh also, as hard as it might be, I would probably cut the secondary spike. I know I have read that with Phals, cutting the spike about an inch above the node closest to the bottom, often will initiate a secondary spike so maybe thats the reason for the spike! Either way, secondary spikes do normally have less flowers anyways so I would trim it back so the plant doesn't devote so many resources to developing the spike and instead it can focus on its roots growth!

And hey, either way, a basal keiki is a GREAT learning experience AND at least you will still have a plant no matter what the cause is!

[WaterWitchin]

Well, I was gonna wait for one of the more science type guys to chime in, but since they haven't yet I'll give it a roll.

Just because the velamen is "rotten" or missing from a part of the root doesn't mean the root is dead. The "wiry" part you see in the middle or end of a root is the root or root cortex. The velamen is like the skin or epidermis of the root. The velamen helps protect the root from UV rays, and also helps efficiently transfer moisture and nutrients. It also helps the epiphytic type orchid (like a phal) cling. The part below that's sending out a "new" piece of root looks better because the velamen is growing along with the root cortex and hasn't been disturbed or rotted away.

In short... especially with an already struggling epiphytic orchid, ya sure don't want to cut off roots that are attempting to grow, even if they don't look the best to you.

[aliceinwl]

I agree with leaving the roots uncut. They’re still functional in this state. I made the mistake of cutting some of the roots with rotted sections not realizing the core was still alive with some of my first Phals. It resulted in dramatic leaf wilting and/or bud blast until the plant was able to recover.

Secondary spikes can be spectacular (or not) on a healthy plant; how well they perform is highly variable from one variety to the next. On plants that are struggling they’re often unimpressive, stall, or end up blasting the buds prior to blooming. If your top priority is saving the plant, I’d cut it at the base above the second node. But, leaving it probably won’t be fatal if you decide you want to hope for flowers.

[emmajs243]

There are the experienced growers!!! And Mook, both of our questions were answered! Great to know the roots are definitely still useful! I have treated them like they are BUT never knew for sure so thanks for that guys!

Also! I love the comment water witchin about the "science type guys"! Lol! I kept expecting someone to jump In here and guide the two newbies instead of us just talking it out using common sense! But hey! As newbies, Mook and I did pretty good finding the right answers! So much nicer to have them confirmed however!

[mook1178]

Thank you all for the help.

I think I'll cut the secondary Spike. It is just beginning. I was excited to see the flowers soon, but I think it'll have a better display next year having time to recover.

[emmajs243]

Ya, that's kinda how I look at it too! Immediate satisfaction rarely pays off in the long run! Orchids definitely do a good job at teaching us patience! Glad you got some guidance!