Cattleya: Growth Cycle?

[emmajs243]

Guys! Thanks so much! Clueless midwesterner, totally love that you call bugs "tiny livestock" and isn't that funny how they really alll choose to do their own thing!? I had kinda hinted at whether or not to repot plants growing new roots a week or so ago...As Roberta knows! But someone always mentions that I should try and wait until it's warmer in spring and then I just sit there so perplexed like, well....there inside on a heat mat....so to them it feels like spring! Plus, I thought it wasn't so much a specific season as when roots are growing.

So then, because like you said midwesterner, I DONT want to do the wrong thing, I am left to ponder in my own mind (which always ends with making things more complicated then they should be and leaves me more undecided then I started!) and I begin to question..."well, maybe spring would be best, maybe these root tips are just like a teaser and the next new growth will Be an explosion! Maybe it is too cold." And then my debate side comes out and thinks, "BUT, overall, growth/roots come before flowers and if this cattleya is a winter bloomer then maybe this IS the right time" (or at least as good as any considering I am worried about its root system!). And then I throw the arguement out that if different cattleyas bloom in all four seasons, doesn't it make sense (to some extent) that different cattleyas also would be "Potting ready" through all four seasons? But then that one warning about waiting for warmer weather pops into my mind and I have no clue what to do!

It's good to hear that you have successfully done some repottings in winter midwesterner! That makes me feel better about diving in and repotting her tonight! I feel like Roberta is right, she is telling me she is ready (NOW....not on the weekend when I am work free) so I need to listen to what she wants! I mean, I am a person that if I am told I can't do something I have to prove them wrong SO if I were an orchid, I would make it my life's mission to defy the "orchid rules"!

And Roberta! You hit the nail on the head with the spring comment. I just didn't want to keep posting the same question over and over so i tried going about it differently with this post thinking, if they say it
Will be at least months for her to be ready to repot again I will do it now because I am not confident she will be healthy in a few more months in her current conditions! And then your comment just like read my mind!

Lastly! Steve! THAT is AWESOME! Printing this out and posting it in my orchid room right NOW! Thank you SO much for this!

Ok a little off topic BUT, are Potinara (I know now called something else) not technically Cattleyas but just a part of the Cattleya Alliance? I am guessing that's a yes. So then is Potinara an independent genus just like Cattleya is?

[isurus79]

Potinara is a melting pot of different genera. It’s a mix of multiple Laeliinae.

[Roberta]

Did a quick search, found this site that has a list of the abbreviations and compositions of a bunch of intergeneric hybrid genera - scroll down beyond the first group of abbreviations.

Orchid Abbreviations

and another list (from RHS, also doesn't show old classifications)
https://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/pdfs/p...components.pdf

This list uses the current genus designations for the intergenerics, so Potinara isn't in there since some of the component genera in specific orchids got reclassified, the genus got split up too. But the concept is there. Orchidwiz has an excellent cross reference that lets one sort things out through the reclassifications.

The concept of genus (to say nothing of species) in plants in general and orchids in particular is different than in animals, since clearly the plants will breed across related genera. That's where the concept of "tribe" comes in - a bunch of genera in the Cattleya alliance (tribe) will interbreed, and that's where we get complex human-made genera like Potinara. The Oncidium tribe also has a bunch of them. And Catatasetinae and Vandaceous as well. These mixtures don't exist in nature. Members of one tribe won't breed with those of another (Cattleya relatives - the Laeliinae - breed with each other, but they would not breed with an Oncidium.)

[Fairorchids]

Hi again Emma,

A couple of comments:

The whole Cattleya family (irrespective of what the taxonomists call each species at any given time) is fairly uniform in requirements. There are some exceptions, which you can find by reading the available literature, such as:

Many bifoliate Cattleyas should only be repotted when new roots are 3/8-3/4" long. This is particularly important for C. amethystoglossa.

The rupicolous Laelias (which are now Cattleyas) from Brazil really must dry out between waterings.
This also applies to C. walkeriana.

Once we move into the hybrids, you will find that there are considerable differences.

Real minis can grow up to 3 new growths each year. Sometimes they bloom as the new growths mature, sometimes they wait and you might have two growths blooming at the same time. Some of these follow the seasons, others grow more or less continuously.

Compacts usually produce 2 new growths each year. Some bloom at different times, others bloom more or less simultaneously on both.

Standards vary. Some produce a single growth each year, some produce one every 8-10 months, and some produce 2 each year. I have one, that sends up one growth over the spring/summer, and a second growth from Sept to Nov. The first growth blooms in January, and the second in March.

To distill what Ray and others have alluded to, there really are no fixed rules. You need to look at each plant over 12-24 months, and establish what that plant likes to do.

[emmajs243]

You guys rock! Thank you EVERYBODY for the help! Roberta! Those lists are awesome! I totally never knew what Blc. Stood for along with....well basically all of them! I just New which alliance they belonged too! One again, totally getting printed out and kept on hand so I know what in the world I am buying!

Kim! Thank you for the help and examples! SO helpful! I strongly that this orchid does put out two new growths a year because when i received it there were definitely two thin, sheathed? new growths! Actually there was also a third that looked pretty young too but I would guess the third was probably from a prior year! I'll have to just practice patience and find out! 😔 At least I have some sort of idea! Granted, Orchids don't follow calendars. BUT I guess that's in large part what makes them so much fun! AND what keeps us on our toes with always more to learn!

One thing that will probably make you guys laugh! I was visiting with my mother a couple of weeks ago when I had just gotten my 2 new catt seedlings and i was telling her about them. Her reply was, "You got two more orchids????! Dont you already have like 3??" (More like 6! but I wasn't going to emphasize her point ) Then she continued on with, "Emma, this is like an addiction, don't you think your going a little over the top??!" HA! And she was saying that when she thought I only had 3 orchids! Oh man! Orchids! If you haven't been bitten by the orchid bug you just don't understand! Here I want to get as many as I possibly can fit in my house and still provide the best care too!

[Roberta]

Just for the record, Potinara = Brassavola (actually Rhyncholaelia) + Sophronitis + Laelia + Cattleya (since the listings with current nomenclature don't show this very common one) For most of these, somewhere along the line there was a Blc crossed with an Slc.

With the Brazilian Laelias and Sophronitis now considered Cattleya, the correct terminology for the usual "Brassavola" parent (Rhyncholaelia), but some of the Cattleyas classified as Guarianthe, the current genus of what was Potinara could vary depending on exactly which species were in the cross. Most (but not all) will be Rhyncattleanthe (Rth.)

[cluelessmidwesterner]

The most difficult part for me isn't the uniqueness of each of the different hybrids, that I can in part wrap my head around, but the reclassification of these that has my head spinning.

It was X crossed with U and Y with a dash of P but X genetically is a Y and we did away with the P class so it's crosses are no long can be considered a Z so we'll call it a Ralph 2.0. It will make things simpler. No it sounds like those math story problems I had in 7th grade.

The folks who've been growing orchids for a long have a difficult time "telling the players without a program". As a new comer I feel totally out of my depth.

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by cluelessmidwesterner

The folks who've been growing orchids for a long have a difficult time "telling the players without a program". As a new comer I feel totally out of my depth.

Frankly, these fine points of nomenclature are pretty unimportant at the early stages of the hobby. Not likely to affect the culture. As you get into it, it becomes part of the learning process - certain species, whatever the name is or was, impart particular characteristics to a hybrid. Learning that stuff can keep you amused for a lifetime. (Personally, that's one reason that I find orchids more interesting than, say, roses). When you submit a plant for judging and use the name on the tag, the judges will help you with the nom du jour.

[emmajs243]

Oh my goodness midwesterner! First off, LOVE that entire post! You gave me a great laugh with that one! Lol!! Oh that is just a perfect representative of how I feel everytime I start trying to figure out what type of hybrid I am looking to buy!

Second, I totally agree BUT....oh man....ya....I have tried to just ignore THAT entire mess for now. I keep telling myself I have to learn how to walk before run so I better figure out just the SIMPLE taxonomy before even thinking about that. BASICALLY, it makes my head spin too but I have been full heartedly embracing denial on that topic!

Plus! I mean, as a newbie, it is vital that you prioritize and I have just decided to prioritize information concerning how to not harm/kill my orchids above their nomenclature!

For now, my brain is far too overloaded with orchid info to worry about anything with my little hybrid seedling besides not killing it!

However, You would think there would be some type of outline published each year on what parameters will be used for classifying....especially for hybrids!

[Roberta]

Originally Posted by emmajs243

However, You would think there would be some type of outline published each year on what parameters will be used for classifying....especially for hybrids!

Problem is, science doesn't work that way. Would it be nice if the horticultural names were separated from the scientific ones? Perhaps, there have been lots of arguments along that line. But the science of systematics is all about understanding what relates to what, and DNA testing has put everything into a new light. When there is new information, a scientist has go with with it. (Birders are going though the same thing, understanding of relationships of avian species are also undergoing some drastic changes)

So don't change your plant tags... hardly any hobbyist does. Just know that these are exciting times for science as new tools are developed. A scientist has to follow the data but you don't have to try to keep up.