Temperature

[Jakob]

Hello!
I'm only just seriously starting with orchids. I have grown a Phalaenopsis or two before, but now i wish to begin with something more interesting.
Since temerature seems to be quite important to growing orchids i have three questions:

A: Tempearture groups:
I tried to understand that trough readig about it, but i would rather see someone checks my coclusions
So there are three (very generally speaking) groups: cool, intermediate and warm.
Cool growing should generally have quite cool nights, around 7-13°C, but can be warmer during the day Around 18 - 25 °C. Intermediate have also cool nights 13 - 17°C, but warm days up to 30°C. Warm groing orchids should always be grown above 18°C.
I understand there is some laxiness around these "rules" depending on the species and level of moisture in the air.
But, it does seem to be quite important to get the daily temperature difference, with cool needing the biggest.
Are this general guidelines correct? How importat is the temperature really? Very? Only for some? I read its possible to grow cold growing orchids outside during the summer?

B: sice i guess most of the world is too warm for cool growing orchids at least part of the year, how are they kept cold? (are elaborate (and probably expensive) cooling systems the only answer?) (heating is no problem but cooling seems more difficult) If the warm period is short enough, do they endure this discomfort or do they just die?

C: Living quarters in the houses are generally fit for warm growing orchids (i understand humidity may be a problem but i have two fishtanks in the room humidity levels are never below 60%, usually 80%, temp. around 20-26 °C ). Correct? And a bright hall thats 10-14° i winter and 16 - 20° in summer should be ok for cool growers?

Thanks for the answers! I really did try to find them online, but the iformation was sometimes contradictory and confusing. i'm really just begining with growing orchids seriously and anyway, i would like to see my conclusions either corrected or confirmed by someone experienced . I have 10 years of experience in aquarium fish, but so to speak I am like a fish out of the water when it comes to the orchids
Regards,
Aljaž

[AJW]

Well done for your appraisal;
Temperature is but one of the key growing elements associated with Orchids.
Remember its Light, Air Movement, Watering Fertilizer, and Temperature that all contribute to good orchid growing. It is getting the balance right to suit the plant for example if it is a cool growing type like a Masdevillia and the Temps are high I increase the air flow and watering. I suggest find out where the orchid genera you are deciding to grow originated from and try and copy as near as practical that growing climate within your growing environment. This could end up as simple as placement of the plant. Away from or near to the light or on a lower growing shelf or hanging higher. Have fun doing it you may loose one or more plants but you will gain knowledge.

[Leafmite]

Hello and welcome! Great to have you here!

[AnonYMouse]

A. You are correct, there is no one absolute answer. Your temperature ranges are just that, ranges. Stay away from the extremes. Environmental control is important, imagine the difference between a high altitude desert (Mojave desert 2000 ft/600 m) and a cloud forest; both are cool to cold but one is barren, the other lush. Some plants do need a diunal temperature difference but not all and some need a seasonal drop.

B. Some growers build elaborate set ups, small terrariums to cabinets to large structures (cool or hot houses, many different terms are used). I'm not familiar in this area but some terms used are: swamp coolers, cool foggers, evaporative cooling. Recently saw a thread on zeer pots which is a pot-in-pot system. I have three "cooler end of intermediate" plants in terracotta pot-semihydroponics.

It is very difficult to save heat/cold damaged plants. Bacterial/fungal disease start immediately after exposure (at least in my experience). The next day or two, they are a rotting salad.

C. I agree.

Some other considerations:

•Light is an equally important factor. Too little and the plant is slow to grow and may not flower. If too intense, the plants can be burnt (I have streaks on leaves from a prism effect).

•Moisture/water/humidity is probably the number one reason for a failed plant.

•Although some plants can grow and flower repeatedly without any fertilizer, eventually they will weaken. Many orchids have sugar/energy stores in pseudobulbs, canes and leaves but successive growths will be smaller and thinner without fertilizers. Some plants need constant low dose feedings.

From your questions, I'm guessing you want to grow cold/cool growers. Any specific genus?

[Jakob]

Thanks for the answers!
I am aware that other factors are important too, but it seems to me that low temperatures are the most difficult to control. Also, it seemed to me that the diversity is biggest in cold and intermediate groups.

About air movement: meaning a fan blowig over the plants or are convectional currents enough?

As i said a am very new and was unaware of all the diversity (except the offer in regular hardware stores and florist shops here, which is not great and its mostly hybrids) and possibilities, but I knew of Masdevallia, so i started there and the "discovered" the other Pleurothallids and then Bulbophyllums. Most of these stay also quite small, so i quite like them . I'm also starting to "discover" the warmer orchids.

[Fairorchids]

1. The temperature ranges are man made distinctions.
2. What they mean, varies from species to species.

In many cases, a species grows over a large area, with significant elevation variation. In such cases, expect that plants are 'hanging on' at the extremes, and blooming best in the middle of the range. A couple of examples:

Vanda tricolor grows in Java & Bali (Indonesia). Our first reaction is to grow it warm & humid. In reality, it grows from 2300-5250 ft elevation, so it is an intermediate plant, that does very well under Cattleya conditions (temperature, light & humidity), but with a bit more water (do not let it go dry between waterings).

Dendrobium nobile grows from NE India throughout SE Asia, including in southern China.
In India: 650-6550 ft elevation
In northern Thailand: 1950-4900 ft elevation

Notice that in the northern locations, plants grow down to lower elevations, while in the southern locations they only appear at 1950 feet. So, despite tolerating intermediate conditions, this plant prefers a cooler treatment.

Lastly, all orchids benefit from a day/night differential of min 10-15F. This is not difficult to achieve, even in an apartment. Get a thermostat that allows different day & night settings.

[Jakob]

yes, yes, i am aware that these groupings are man made, and that plants dont care much what i think what conditions they should grow, but for now i find them useful to start learning . I need to get some experience

I have many more questions (just got first two species orchids), but since they wont be just temperature oriented, I'll try to find appropriate place

[Roberta]

Another consideration is the difference between "requires cool" such as high elevation (3000 m near the equator) plants that really do complain if they get warm, and "tolerates cool" which includes a very large number of species that come from elevations from about 1300 - 2200 m near the equator (at higher latitudes, adjust those elevation ranges downward). Those typically will be fine with temperatures down close to freezing, and will also tolerate summer heat with shade and perhaps some misting. That includes a LOT of very interesting orchids. If you acclimate the plants gently, it is possible to stretch the range of what they will tolerate even more.

	Mistking Looking for a misting system? Look no further. Automated misting systems from MistKing are used by multitude of plant enthusiasts and are perfect for Orchids. Systems feature run dry pumps, ZipDrip valve, adjustable black nozzles, per second control! Automatically mist one growing shelf or a greenhouse full of Orchids. See MistKing testimonials

[bil]

When keeping any living thing it pays to bear in mind how much you can afford to control the environment.

The really determines what you can keep.

To illustrate, here I have to cope with high summer temps (this summer it hit 43C which is in excess of 110F) and sub zero winter temps.

I simply can't afford to cool the greenhouse in summer, but I can just about heat it in winter. So I am limited in that cooler orchids are a no no for me. If shade isn't enough protection, I simply can't afford to keep them.

As has been suggested, try a few and see which ones do well, an then go from there.