How to kick phal into root growth mode?

[ridethespiral]

I have two phals that I want to get going into semi-hydro but they currently aren't putting out new roots. A few weeks ago I transferred them from peat moss into a semi-hydro medium but have only been watering them as if it was a regular substrate. Not long after, I switched out the two T5HO bulbs in the fixture over my fish tank for two brand new 6500K bulbs (Holy CRAP I didn't realize how much less light the old bulbs were putting out.. It's blinding now!). The fixture is hanging 30cm above the top of the tank, and about 15" from the phal leaves.

They really seem to be loving the new medium and light. The leaves have lightened up a bit (used to be pretty dark) into a more olive colour. I can take pics if you would like to comment on how they're doing. Both of the phals have started to put out spikes. One has about a 4mm long spike emerging, the other is only about 2mm long but I can tell they're spikes. One of the orchids has an old spike that grew up into the light and burned, but is still alive from on of the nodes (about 15cm long). I'm not sure if I should cut this off and once the other spikes get a little longer, cut them off? Or trim the little spikes and apply cinnamon to abort them. There was one little new leaf growing on one orchid when I repotted them a few weeks ago which is now about 5-6cm long and shows no signs of stopping.

I've been using fish tank water and adding in the fertilizer I used to use for my aquatic plants (NPK, CSM+B) as well as another 'micro' nutrient solution made by Seachem. I tested the nitrate level of the current concentration I've been using and it appears to be about 80ppm. I eventually plan to get actual orchid fertilizer, but that's an investment I can't afford at the moment, and it seems to be working well. I also picked up a bottle of superthrive when I bought new bulbs and have been using it as well.

Now despite all of this new growth, there are no new roots emerging! How can I convince these orchids to put out new roots instead of spikes and leaves? I'd like to be able to finally switch over to semi-hydro but I won't risk it until I see a bunch of new roots coming out.

TLDR: How to convince orchids growing under T5HO bulbs for 12hrs a day to put out new roots so I can switch over to semi-hydro?

[silken]

Try watering them with kelp (seaweed).

[ridethespiral]

Any chance you know where I could order some to Canada (edit: Just noticed you're from Saskatchewan ) for a decent price? Ray's site charges $40 for shipping to Canada.. I was going to order a whole bunch of stuff from his site because it's so cheap then WHAM. The hydroponics store I bought my T5HO lights at have a grossly inflated price for their kelp extract.. At least the T5HO bulbs were really cheap..

I'm trying to find:

Physan 20
KLN
Kelp extract
MSU orchid fert (well water, powder) OR equivalent orchid suitable fertilizer

[silken]

Originally Posted by ridethespiral

Any chance you know where I could order some to Canada (edit: Just noticed you're from Saskatchewan ) for a decent price? Ray's site charges $40 for shipping to Canada.. I was going to order a whole bunch of stuff from his site because it's so cheap then WHAM. The hydroponics store I bought my T5HO lights at have a grossly inflated price for their kelp extract.. At least the T5HO bulbs were really cheap..

I'm trying to find:

Physan 20
KLN
Kelp extract
MSU orchid fert (well water, powder) OR equivalent orchid suitable fertilizer

You have some great hydroponics stores in Edmonton which is where I bought my seaweed the last two years in a row. I can't remember the names now but I am thinking most have it. Some may also have KLN, but otherwise Paramount Orchids (used to be in Calgary but moved to west coast a year ago) sells it. Physan 20 is not available in Canada as far as I know but seems to come across the border OK when I add it with clear plastic pot orders and such. Not sure I would try it on its own, but it may be allowed. MSU I am not aware of for sale here but our society orders it in bulk and sells it in small quantities at our meetings. There are other well balanced ferts tho or you could maybe get it if you are ordering Physan from the U.S. I don't think there is any issue with bringing it across the border.

As far as getting KLN, it is rooting hormone and I have used both and think I prefer the kelp.

---------- Post added at 06:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:06 PM ----------

Edmonton has a great orchid society if you are not already a member. You would find out lots of sources for things and there are some very experienced growers and judges there. They get some great speakers and Fred Clarke from Sunset Valley Orchids is going to be there this fall. You should think about joining if you are not already a member!

[Wild Orchid]

Originally Posted by ridethespiral

Any chance you know where I could order some to Canada (edit: Just noticed you're from Saskatchewan ) for a decent price? Ray's site charges $40 for shipping to Canada.. I was going to order a whole bunch of stuff from his site because it's so cheap then WHAM. The hydroponics store I bought my T5HO lights at have a grossly inflated price for their kelp extract.. At least the T5HO bulbs were really cheap..

I'm trying to find:

Physan 20
KLN
Kelp extract
MSU orchid fert (well water, powder) OR equivalent orchid suitable fertilizer

I use seaweed extract which is equivalent to kelp extract bought at the local Canadian Tire, 500 g for $11. Given the concentration and watering regime, the bottle lasts almost a year (well, for my watering needs anyway.)

You can also order one from those sites. Shipping from Canada would always be cheaper.


Search - Veseys
Bustan - Toronto Hydroponics Grow Lights Nutrients Hydroponic Supplies Canada
Tropical Gardens Orchids

Physan 20 is not available in Canada due to regulations..... I use Spa Care Algae Kill found in the spa department at Wal-Mart.

Shultz Orchid Food is easily found at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Canadian Tire and Lowes.

MSN Fertilizer
Tropical Gardens Orchids

Other Fertilizers
SUPPLIES

Liquid Kelp Fertilizer | The Organic Gardener's Pantry | The Organic Gardener's Pantry

Use the search engine on this site, many similar issues related to the Canadian market were previously discussed.

[Dendy83]

Hey, I was hoping you could answer a question for me. I, too, keep a fishtank and simply use Prime to condition the water. Do you think that water would be ok to water my orchids with? Would I still need to use fertilizer if I use fish tank water?

[ridethespiral]

AFAIK, you still have to supplement the fish tank water with nutrients. Generally my fish tank water is around 10-20ppm nitrate, and people are using around 100ppm nitrate to feed their orchids. I run a natural planted tank with dirt substrate and only do water changes twice a year (yes, you read that correctly) Here's a link to my tank log (I haven't updated it in nearly two years and will do so soon, bringing it back to full glory again)

75g D. Walstad inspired Natural Planted Tank !56k! [12/21/11]

I appreciate the links, and I will certainly look into local supplies. I was just pretty discouraged when I saw the prices at the hydro store I went to.

[Wild Orchid]

Originally Posted by ridethespiral

I appreciate the links, and I will certainly look into local supplies. I was just pretty discouraged when I saw the prices at the hydro store I went to.

How true - sigh!

Well, for a starter, seaweed from CT, epsom salts from London Drugs (1 kg for about $6) and good old Shultz fertizlier should meet your needs at least for a year.

There's an argument that orchids actually don't need much fertilizing if any, and that a good culture (temps, moisture, lighth level ) should be enough and that anything extra "made for orchids in mind" is just a marketing gimmic.

Not to get into an argument with anyone, as we agree to disagree..... but I hope this info would be helpful.

Happy growing!

[Bill U.]

Many phals go through 3 distinct seasons throughout the year- root/leaf growth, flowering, and resting. Of course there are exceptions to this where sometimes roots/leaves can be occurring while flowering, but for simplicity, think of them as 3 separate seasons (for now).

Your change in growing conditions may have actually induced the phals to spike. One method many commercial growers use is to have enough light for the phals to grow, but not enough to bloom- once they receive enough light, they tend to bloom like a madman because they have been repressed for so long. Cutting the spikes and applying cinnamon may cause the phals to abort the spikes, or it just may cause them to throw out another spike. Many phals can be quite stubborn like that- when they want to spike, they are going to try and try until they get one.

Something that is good for helping to induce roots as was suggested to you is watering with a kelp/seaweed extract solution. These solutions have some of the minerals and hormones that help induce growth in your plant- roots and general health. The thing to be careful of with Superthrive or any other growth-hormone solution is that when used too often, it can cause mutations in your flower spikes and flowers themselves due to a very confusing level of growth hormone (to the plant) during a time when it's primary "thought" is spiking, not rooting.

As I mentioned at the beginning, it is also possible that with the improvement in light supply and general culture, your phals may start to root even while flowering- signs of a very happy plant!

Good luck and happy growing!

[Joyorchid]

One other suggestion is to place the phals on a seedling mat. The bottom heat can encourage root growth.