Lumex, Footcandle, Shade, semishade, and Co...

[kavanaru]

Originally Posted by Ross

Ramon's intent is still valid, however, in that you should be able to measure Foot-candles (or whatever) at the leaf surface, no matter the type of bulb. I believe he is after a list of absolute Foot-candle needs by plant group or species.

Hi Ross, the idea is not a list of absolut Fc needs by plant group or species, but a compilation of what is given already in different sources and the own experience OB Members have.

I mentioned at the beginning of the thread, that there is several ways to measure light intensity, that there is confusion with semi-shade, shade, full sun, etc, and teh idea of the trhead is to clarify this rather vague information. If someone can measure Fc/Lux that's excellent and make everything easier, if someone cannot do it, but read someone has success with 500Fc, that's a start point to search what exactly is 500Fc and how much light that could be. We have bodaciousbonsai's thread who give a clear example: "400-500Fc at 4' below a 54 watt ho t5 unit 8 bulbs system" Anybody, can then have a better idea of what 500Fc means (and that's much better than saying semi-shade)

you normally find in the bibliography and the web: use this for A use this for B use this for C. I think that's the dangerous information, as it is always given as absolut unique source of true. What most people need, especially when growing orchids, is a "Use this for A as it works for me under this conditions, but use that for A, as it works for thi sother guy at these other conditions". That's exactly the information I wan to compile here: what is given in the bibliography and the web, and what is your own experience.

You all give this information here in OB in different threads, why not compiling it in one? If this is bad, as I said the whole OB is bad, because you provide the information anyway...

as I said guys, this are my two cents, and still think is a good way to clarify the light issue for everybody...

[s.kallima]

I think it would be great to have a thread like Ramon started, a compilation of information about light "requirements" for species, think of it almost as a database, and another seperate thread (there are already many...) to argue about it !
I can tell you as a newbie myself, that I find it a bit annoying to see every single thread starting with an idea of compiling information (ie. species in S/H, light requirements...) turning into pro and con argumentation. It is good to argue, but maybe doing it in a seprate thread would help !

Ramon never said we have to provide exactely this or that amount of fc., he is trying to compile what is already available and if possible add the personnal experiences OB members have in order to help newbies.
You think newbies will jump into conclusions as soon as they read 1500 fc. for Masdevallia in this thread ? ...but what is the first thing you can read on an AOS culture sheet for Masdevallia ? And other websites will tell you : medium shade for Masdevallia... doesn't help much a newbie!

Some people will always jump into conclusions too fast no matter how many precautions you take when you talk or write... they make mistakes, they learn from it (hopefully...)

The initial idea of organizing the info very clearly is great (there are hundreds of other threads for reading long stories about orchids culture)
fc., species, source of info
and people can add their results at measuring the light with their installations. ie. type of artificial light, surroundings (windows or not, facing which direction), distance of leaves from bulbs, fc. (or lux) measured, species grown of course ... just make it short so we can read it fast!
Maybe Ramon you could restart a "database thread", and an "arguing thread"...

Please excuse my english (second language) and hopefully you will understand that I am not for censuring members opinions !

[Learner]

I agree with Ramon and Kallima.

I have read through this thread a couple of times and I keep coming away with the feeling that there are several discussions going on. The most important one is the original intent of compiling data on light "requirements" for growing different groups or species of orchids. I think that data of this sort is extremely valuable to newbies like myself. But, isn't the real intent to learn what is the minimum light needed for healthy, blooming plants? I find that it is of no use to me to repeatedly read that I can grow a beautiful collection of plants under a $500 bank of T5 bulbs if I only have three or four phals from Lowes. Isn't if more useful, for me, to know that someone used a couple of Phillips T12 full spectrum bulbs for 12 hours a day, kept their Phals 4 inches from the bulbs, and had good growth and blooms. And only spent $18 for the whole set up. OK, I made up the numbers but you get the idea. This is not telling us what the "requirements" ARE, it is telling us what has WORKED and we don't even have to know the foot candles.

It would also help to know that under the same conditions, their Catts thrived, but never bloomed. Maybe I could look down a list and get a sense of what I have to do to get Catts to bloom. Maybe this is where the T5 info starts to come into play. Or maybe 5 hours of very bright light, at such or such f.c., followed by deep shade works to get Catts to bloom just as well as 14 hours of an 8 bulb T5 in a basement.

If I really get hooked on orchids (as seems to be happening) I can kick up my plant area, make an investment in "bigger, better and brighter" and go out and expand my collection. I will also be a lot smarter from the experience of others.

So, y'all with years of experience, please describe what you grow under what conditions and hopefully give us the fc or lux or lumens and any other data. Knowing what works isn't dangerous and doesn't establish numerical requirements but it does give us something to work with.

And, like Kallima, I hope I have offended no-one.

[Hedge]

As a newbie growing on either east or west facing windows or in a greenhouse on the south side of the house which gets shaded by the neighbour's house for midday, I am fascinated by this discussion. From my own experience, although it is nice in theory to get the light 'right', I don't think I could.

Nature makes weather very changeable, and I know from growing cacti that environmental conditions have to work together . For an orchid example, Coelogyne cristata grows in mountains with cold dry winters but lots of fog and breeze at the same time - something that we can't easily replicate, yet people succesfully bloom these orchids 'in captivity'. I am not sure that isolating light levels as a growth factor is such a good idea - the whole package needs to be addressed. Just my

Regards

Heather aka

[Leisurely]

Heather, the ideal conditions would be to duplicate the plants conditions in its habitat. As you said, it is not possible so I theorize that if you provide something similar to the natural conditions the plant will adjust to it's cultural environment. This can readily be seen by a certain variety of plants that have a wide range of growing conditions in nature and have obviously adapted to the different environments.

[Austinerd]

The phal pictured in my member name photo has 2 big spikes, aerial roots growing all over the place, nice healthy dark leaves, grows vigorously, has sap on it, and according to my light meter gets only 150 footcandles under 2 T12 tubes for about 13 hours per day......just my contribution. I enjoy reading about the lighting!

[Amanda L]

I'm with Learner, it's very frustrating for me to read about light requirements in a thread, only to find information about growing under expensive lights, a bunch of jargon that I go cross eyed from reading and terms that I need a doctorate to understand. I'm pretty new to this and really don't have a handle on lighting at this time. I know that I have 2 "Daylight" CFL bulbs, 6500k, in desk lamps and I am getting some nice growth from it. But, upon further researching light requirements for blooming, I have found that the 6500k that my bulbs are, is too cool for any blooms, so I've read. I don't have the money to spare on buying an expensive light setup, because though I love my orchids, having electricity, heat, food, water and a place to live is more important to me. I also have no room for a big setup, nor am I able to hang anything from anywhere. I want to know what is good for my orchids in my space at this time, I need to be able to screw some bulbs, that I can find easily and inexpensively, in some lamps and be done with it. Further down the road I will look into getting the nice setup, maybe a tank to keep them in. But, at this time I need bulbs (screw in), that will fit the lamps that I have, in the space that I have them. I don't have a light meter, but I finally found one that isn't outrageously priced. Basically, I need a dumbed down lesson on what kind of bulb. I will know where and how, when I know the bulbs that I need, keeping in mind that I need to be able to work with what I have already. I'm not particularly worried about blooming at this time, since my chids need to grow, but when it's time for me to see some blooms, I want to be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor.

[derv88]

So I found this thread based on a search and am seeking the exact information being discussed. Unfortunately, this conversation seemed to not get alot of support.

Has anyone seen an updated thread/discussion where this information is disclosed?

Thanks in advance!
Jack