More beginner questions about back-crossing

[Louis_W]

In your example you are dealing with a limited gene pool so with all the inbred crossing and back crossing what you are really doing is exploring the contents of your plants genome. After four generations (probably hundreds of seedlings) you will have a pretry good idea of whats in there.

What most breeders do is just self the plant. Its a simple way to make a living punnet square of possibilities based on the plants genome, and its the same hybrid (your strategy makes plants which all have different hybrid names) if there is potential for something amazing in there, you can get it out by blooming dozens or hundreds of progeny. It really isnt roulette at all. You just need to be able to grow out tons of plants. No way to know for each one, but as a group they are predictable.

[tmoney]

for me, this is the crux of what it means to get "good genetics" and "stud plants". sure, those plants usually will have outstanding traits (flower size, color, etc), but what real breeders want is consistent expression. you probly know that sometimes plants that look like one thing can be something else. inside, the genetics are different. we average home growers have no real way to tell, so have no idea that it won't breed the same as a true member of the species. so, 5 years after trying to use it as a parent and you find out you wasted a lot of time and optimism. this is just one examples of the challenges that novice breeders face in the name of stable genetics.

breeding is so complex. primary hybrids are one thins, but when you add in tertiary or back crosses (forget complex hybrids) the possibilities become too much for any mortal to calculate or predict. asking these sorts of questions, while a valid and worthy task, is akin to asking about drivetrain ratios when you are first learning how to ride your bike at age 5. have you had any successful backcrosses yet?

the best breeders also have the advantage of acres of greenhouses. so sure, after many years it looks like they just know what will happen with a cross, and one cross gives thousands of perfect plants. you know that isnt the case.

it might be my humble suggestion to approach this subject from another viewpoint: just do it and then add to the data pool when you have results. this will teach you more than a million posts. ask yourself 2 ??'s: what is your goal for the cross (pick one you like, but just have something as a target), and then what plants do i need to get to possibly achieve that goal. then its just a matter of sourcing the best plants (genes) possible, which as you know can be one of the toughest parts.


tl;dr - just go for it! good luck

edit: what i really meant to say is sometime there can be a bit of "gatekeeping" in the orchid world, it seems...and my attitude is, who cares what other people say you need to do. if you want to make some attempt at a cross, just go for it....just have others going as well so when your original idea is a total fail you might have some poo that sticks to the wall!!

[alecStewart1]

Originally Posted by Louis_W

In your example you are dealing with a limited gene pool so with all the inbred crossing and back crossing what you are really doing is exploring the contents of your plants genome. After four generations (probably hundreds of seedlings) you will have a pretry good idea of whats in there.

What most breeders do is just self the plant. Its a simple way to make a living punnet square of possibilities based on the plants genome, and its the same hybrid (your strategy makes plants which all have different hybrid names) if there is potential for something amazing in there, you can get it out by blooming dozens or hundreds of progeny. It really isnt roulette at all. You just need to be able to grow out tons of plants. No way to know for each one, but as a group they are predictable.

Hmmm, okay. Makes sense. There are a couple of plants that I have that I was curious about selfing or sibling...-ing(?) in the case of having two plants from the same mother plant.

Probably worth trying before doing anything with hybridization.

---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:01 PM ----------

Originally Posted by My Green Pets

If you haven't seen Roy Tokunaga's talk on orchid genetics and breeding, you may find it interesting:

https://youtu.be/ePl-c6W8ywQ

Watching now. Biology isn't in my wheelhaus, as I'm in software, so hopefully I can follow along without getting too lost.

[Louis_W]

I still get something new out of it every time. I must have seen it 20 times and I just realized how the amphidiploids work! Its incredible how they learned this stuff!