Here we are again...Let's talk Rot

[emmajs243]

Ok guys. Once again I am sitting here with rot/infection/some type of problem.

This Cattleya arrived only two or so weeks ago from the seller. All orchids in this shipment arrived healthy and stress free. She HAD 3 new growths being pushed out.

I have only had to water her twice now...The most recent being Monday morning. Her growth appeared perfectly normal...Occasionally I see a small/short brown, dried sheath like wrapper on the very base of a new growth or two once they get so big...I felt like this was normal...is it not and I'm just missing the sign?

today I see her new growth is black Except for the very tip. I try to peel back the black outer layers to see if I could spot where the rot started and find the growth is barely even holding on to the plant from the base having a black Ring right where it attaches to the plant.

After the growth practically fell off, I remove the black outer layers to find then a yellow layer. That's when I got my camera. You will see photos of the growth after the black outer layer was removed, the inside of the growth at the point where it was removed from the plant, immediately after slicing the growth in half before any discoloration occurred and the remaining spot on the plant where the growth came from...*NOTE*this spot looks like a lighter brown but that is only Due to me using higher lighting for better clarity.

this seems different then what took my seedlings, it seems To have started at the growth. Also, the growth was SLIGHTLY softer with the black outer layers but the inside where it was connected to the plant and the adjoining plants spot is dry. Also, both of these same spots look porous with hollow cavities. There are definitely larger and deeper hollowed out cavities in the growth then the adjoining plant spot but the plant also has very small cavities too.

Guys this will be my third Catt lost if I don't save her. Advise? Do I remove the spot of the plant where the new growth was attached since it's dark brown?? Of course this same pseudobulb has a second new growth and a TON of beautiful new roots.

anyways, I have to figure out what I am doing wrong...AOS's website says to keep fans on but facing the opposite direction....does anyone disagree with this?

Is it possible for my well water to be infected already? I have no idea. It just seems ridiculous at this point. I'm clearly doing something wrong...

Does anyone know exactly how rot spreads? I know by water BUT. Is it like only when the water is in the liquid form or if water drops and drys the dried water is still able to spread the bacteria? Does anyone know if after so much time passes if the bacteria is no longer contagious like some other bacteria and diseases? I am just trying to figure out the what I'm doing wrong...

I am currently working at a wastewater treatment lab and it's not like we are getting soaked in wastewater by any means but on these cold days I'm wearing my hoodies and Im sure my sleeve comes in contact with dried wastewater spots and then if I come home with that same hoody, could this spread it to the plant?

Idk I feel like that's a fairly paranoid though but I'm just brainstorming possibilities guys because I'm at a loss...ANY knowledge, advise, thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated!

Oh AND yes, she has been isolated this entire time!

[Roberta]

While it seems a stretch that contamination from your clothes caused what looks like an internal issue on the plants, it's possible that a pathogen could get into the media and then into the plants. If you are coming in contact with wastewater at all, I'd worry more about YOU than the plants...your employer should be providing you with protective clothing that can go over your own garments. Even after secondary treatment, if you would not want to drink the stuff or bathe in it, you don't want it on your clothing or in your house!

[emmajs243]

Oh but shouldn't they? That is sarcasm...I too definitely felt like it was a stretch but I just am at a loss so started throwing out anything I could think of!

Poor Roberta received a response in a message...that turned into a vent session...but let's just sum it down to, direct contact, not so much, indirect contact...impossible to avoid. You can't open a doorknob in this place without coming in contact with at least dried wastewater.

Totally do NOT agree with their methods but I've tried spurring a change and let's just say they don't care the same as me.

BUT in terms of workplace complaints...We will end it there because I really don't want this turning into a discussion about my workplace...no matter how much I am not a fan! Primarily just because I really need help with this Rot situation!

If you think this may be a viable possibility for my Rot problems and want more details I will happily give them however!

Please help me save my Toshie Aoiki 'Pizzaz' guys! Please! I was keeping an eye out for months for this orchid and finally JUST got her....I am NOT ready to lose her or have her set back forever....it's too soon since my last loss....

[Roberta]

Toshie Ayoki? Good luck. Remember, it is almost 60% C. dowiana, which has some very specific cultural needs. Like, its blooming season is fall, and it roots AFTER it blooms. Pot it in the spring, you'll very likely kill it. That's counter-intuitive, nobody thinks of potting in the fall but that's what C. dowiana and dominant hybrids want. This does need to grow on the warm side, again because of that C. dowiana ancestry.

[SaraJean]

Hmm. I wonder if Roberta might be on to something with the dowiana background of this particular hybrid. I know it’s a hybrid so it should be more vigorous but my C. dowiana is probably one of my most temp sensitive orchids. It stalls below 65F and then gets seriously pissed at anything lower than 60F (I.e. rot starting at the new growths, then bordering on death). Maybe that is just my dowiana, but I would be wary of any sort of cool/intermediate temps around any hybrids with a strong presence of it in the background. I now keep my dowiana high up on the warm side of the greenhouse where it stays between 80-85F days and lows of 68F at night to be in the safe side.

Was this shipped to you and what have your outdoor night temps been that this would have been exposed to in the mail?

[emmajs243]

Oh my gosh, thank you Roberta!!!! I know many yellows have a large C. Dowiana background but I had no idea it was THAT large! Did orchidwiz give you that information????! Once again proving it's usefulness....I know, I know...I haven't purchased any new plants because I am setting money aside for orchidwiz instead!

So really any Toshie Aoki is going to have a large C. Dowiana background then? I will have to swap her to a different room. I wonder if where she was for isolation just got too cold at night. I know she has kicked out roots like crazy but they were all rather large by the time she arrived...she still has some new ones being produced but 95% are over three inches long and her Potting mix looks to be in excellent condition so I had no plans of potting immediately anyway.

So is it safe to say, they will also be more prone to the higher light requirements too?

Also, Very good to know that C. Dowiana's do NOT like being repotted out of "their" season too....As much as my C dowiana could use being repotted and has kicked out a couple of new roots...I will most definitely hold off now.

And SaraJean, thank you SO much for your supporting information and experience with your C. Dowiana!!!!! My actual C. Dowiana has been fine but is in a much warmer spot however, even I didn't know exactly how warm they wanted it so that is very helpful. She was shipped with nightly lowes in the mid 50's with like, not joking a triple insulated box. She also was packaged with plants all surrounding her on all sides and heat packs throughout. And honestly, I'm pretty positive she never reached temps in this range even when shipped. She spent her first night in Hawaii and her second night in California then arrived here that morning and was delivered a couple hours later so she really didn't hit the cooler region until right before arrival.

I am wondering since this seems to have coincided right after watering, that night her temps ran on the cooler side I would say low 60's and I wonder if that's what did it? My actual C. Dowiana was shipped at the same time very well insulated and packaged too and has been fine BUT she has been in maximum lows not ever hitting below 68 in my seedling room since arrival.

You know I knew they could handle warmer temps and liked higher humidity and light but I didn't know that they also actually wanted warmer temps...This has been VERY educational. My C. dowiana basically has its own set up try and mimic its precise environment and although they need to be isolated from each other, I definitely can do much better at providing my Toshie Aoki a very similar habitat until she is clear from isolation.

ANY C. Dowiana tips would be GREATLY appreciated from those of you who have had them! Especially since it seems like my favorite plants have a large C. Dowiana influence too.

So question guys, and sarajean from your experience with your C. dowiana and it having growths rot when too cold, do you have to do anything to keep it from spreading or does it just stop once temp is taken up? How do I get her back on track? Your wording leads me to believe your C. Dowiana had survived this occurring so is there hope of saving the plant? Roberta? Anyone? Opinions?!!?

[Ray]

Because I have a ready supply, I would turn first to Inocucor/Concentric Ag Garden Solution, as it will kill pathogens and "beef up" the plant to avoid such issues in the future.

I never had any issues with repotting C. dowiana or its hybrids in the spring, or any time, for that matter. Of course, my greenhouse rarely got below 60°.

[Roberta]

The info on pedigree did come from OW. The info about repotting and pickiness of both C. dowiana and Blc. Toshie Aoki came from growers much more experienced than I am, and their hard experience. I have killed a couple of dowianas, so off my list - plenty of other orchids that do fine under my conditions for me to choose.

[emmajs243]

Ray! She and my C. dowiana just got their first doses of Incocur this past Monday! However, I was JUST thinking last night I need to order more or look into a bigger bottle this time!

I found it very interesting because in my search for C. Dowiana habitat info I came by a post on here by someone else a couple of years ago who was struggling with their C. Dowiana growth rotting and I found you giving the Incocur advise. I knew it could help strengthen the plant but I had no idea it could help fight off rot! That's when I decided I obviously needed to order more this next week!

I settled her over In a warmer isolated spot with a stronger fan to help her dry quickly inbetween waterings like C. Dowiana likes. so far the dark brown spot where the growth fell off from hasn't appeared to spread or have any issues. I will follow your website instructions for treating sick plants with the Incocur however to just be on the safe side!

And I am surprised you have had no issues with repotting Ray!! While reading up last night I constantly saw people commenting on how they have a reputation for being fussy with their roots and when repotted at the wrong time like Roberta mentioned. Did you have your dowiana in s/h Ray?!

I also found the info discussing how C. Dowiana has very low fertilizer needs too so I may need to adjust this some with her.

Thank you guys so much! Hopefully we get a handle on this! I feel like such a dummy because right before ordering her I read up on care and it was mentioned the strong C. Dowiana influence so treat them about the same with a little higher tolerance but then our weather was bad and she didn't ship out for a month or so later and I had an isolated personal habitat all ready for my c. dowiana but my poor Toshie Aoki just got chucked with the other Catts I completely forgot about her heritage!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by emmajs243

I found it very interesting because in my search for C. Dowiana habitat info I came by a post on here by someone else a couple of years ago who was struggling with their C. Dowiana growth rotting and I found you giving the Incocur advise. I knew it could help strengthen the plant but I had no idea it could help fight off rot! That's when I decided I obviously needed to order more this next week!

The product is sold as a probiotic because it is far easier to register and gain commercial clearance. If it is sold as a curative, it then must be registered as a pesticide with the EPA. It does work that way, though.

And I am surprised you have had no issues with repotting Ray!! While reading up last night I constantly saw people commenting on how they have a reputation for being fussy with their roots and when repotted at the wrong time like Roberta mentioned. Did you have your dowiana in s/h Ray?!

Nope, I grew them in Orchiata bark. The "right time" for repotting is related to the growth stage of the plant, and not the calendar season, although they might coincide. If new roots are emerging from the base of a new growth and you can provide the conditions the plants like, it's the "right time".

I also found the info discussing how C. Dowiana has very low fertilizer needs too so I may need to adjust this some with her.

The demand for fertilizer is directly related to the rate of growth. Most orchids are slow growers, and C. dowiana is not special in that regard. Your plants will do much better if kept on a diet than if overfed.