A Different Way To Protect The Ghost Orchid

[epiphyte78]

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

Apparently examples of this happening in various taxa in animals, plants, birds, fish, shrimp etc... are 'irrelevant' because somehow epiphytes are magically exempt from these forces. Oh wait, I said that already:

It's kind of a strange situation where I'm here scratching my head trying figure out how to do a better job than Benzing did explaining the difference between a tree and the ground.

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

I actually don't understand this thing about eyeballs and bugs, so I'll just leave that one alone.

It seems I can't explain why trees and the ground are different...so I'll leave it alone as well.

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

No, I am saying that he is one person, and I am skeptical since all I have seen is the quote on your blog, which contains statements that don't referencing specific species or studies. Again, please confirm you understand what a field study or a controlled experiment is, and the difference between that and an expert opinion. These are very fascinating theoretical ideas, but without some sort of study backing them up, it's doesn't have much substance.

Sure, I know the difference between a study and an opinion just like I know the difference between a tree and the ground.

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

Also, if you ever do present this proposal to a scientific body, just note that the responsibility is on you to provide the evidence and convince people of your idea. Not me. Perhaps you might pause for a moment and wonder why 80% of the participants (most of them lay people like myself) watching this thread are not convinced by your idea.

I don't have to pause to figure that one out...it's because 80% of the participants haven't even heard of David Benzing.

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

The scientific community is much tougher. Be prepared to be met with scepticism until you provide actual convincing backup. Unfortunately, 'epiphyte maths' doesn't really count. Allow me to return your well wishes - good luck.

The scientific community is much tougher...because...they don't even know what an epiphyte is?

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

You didn't answer my question. I'll repeat it. What are the forces threatening the hybrids that we create? If your goal is simply biodiversity, why don't we just continue creating hybrids and grow them in our greenhouses? They're not under any threat - they don't need cold/drought tolerance. They don't need animals to pollinate them. We can just live with tons of hybrids, growing in greenhouses or protected gardens, with biodiversity left right and centre...and if a batch dies, we'll just make more using different parents. The possibilities of infinite, and biodiversity is infinite - please clarify what your goal of 'biodiversity' has to do with creating hybrids that survive in nature.

You're painting a pretty picture of wonderful biodiversity inside...but what's going on outside? Is there no more outside? Is it just a bleak, post apocalyptic, lifeless wasteland? Inside it's utopia and outside it's dystopia?

If we're going to err with the future of outside...then I want to err on the side of too much life. If I had to choose between Bladerunner's outside or Avatar's outside...then it wouldn't be a difficult choice. Neither would it be a difficult choice if I had to choose between future people hating me because there weren't enough wild epiphytic orchids or hating me because they had to scrape orchids off their homes.

There's a really simple formula if we want to aim for too much life...

More orchids on trees equals more life

When we put more orchids on trees, whether hybrids or species, we facilitate adaptive radiation. Adaptive radiation is a numbers game. The more monkeys we have typing...the quicker they'll produce the complete works of Shakespeare. The more orchids that are throwing seeds in the air, the quicker that they'll adapt to trees in new habitats. And more orchids on trees means more food/shelter for more animals and less global warming.

How'd you get from this...

Originally Posted by epiphyte78

I don't know why you feel so confident that the future of orchids in the wild is secure. Do you see many threads being posted on the topic of conservation? Do you hear many stories of more habitat being saved than lost?

to this...

Originally Posted by calvin_orchidL

Please kindly point out where I ever made this implication. Just because I think your proposal is poorly formed does not mean I don't support conservation, which seems to be a weird deduction you have made several times towards other people here.

I wasn't asking to see your receipts for donations that you've made to conservation organizations. I was asking to see the evidence that makes you so confident that conservation organizations are doing enough to steer us well away from a Bladerruner future. Because I sure see plenty of evidence to the contrary. And I'm not trying to knock what they are doing...I'm just saying that it's a drop in the bucket. And I don't see that changing anytime soon.

This forum doesn't even have a category for conservation. And it's certainly the rule rather than the exception.

With herclivation though, a small group of enthusiasts might be able to greatly increase the diversity and biomass of epiphytic orchids in Florida. Of course, as usual, I'm not suggesting or recommending that people introduce any non-native plants or animals into the wild. This is just purely hypothetical and theoretical.

Regarding your concern...let me provide an example that's more relevant than all your examples combined...

If P. bifurcatum plants become very dense on trees, they could displace native epiphytes. - Robert W. Pemberton, The Common Staghorn Fern, Platycerium bifurcatum, Naturalizes in Southern Florida

That was written 10 years ago. Have they become very dense on trees since then?

Last week I went to Andy's Orchids. While there I noticed a baby P. bifurcatum on the gravel between some rows of orchids. Somebody had recently done some weeding.

Personally, I'd do the same thing if a P. bifurcatum started to grow on my tree. Why? Opportunity cost. It would pretty quickly crowd out dozens of other epiphytes. In other words, my tree would have less biodiversity if I let it grow.

But in Florida, bifurcatum's going to have to try pretty hard to displace any native epiphytes. I'm not saying it's impossible...I'm just saying that if it does manage to grow so well...then it would behoove us to consider all the carbon it could sequester and all the food and shelter it could provide for animals if it continued to do so. Basically, how much would it help steer us towards Avatar and away from Bladerunner?