Norman's Orchids/Orchids.com sent beautiful phals

[TomThumb]

So i have mixed experience with Norman's. They're not great customer service wise if you call them and i had to because i just moved and there was an issue with the address on my CC. However after a fiasco of a phone call where the person who picked up basically didn't want to help me (i couldn't change the CC info on the order online because of how they programmed the site to lock) I decided to make another order from them anyway because they have a variety of Phal. schillerianas and i really wanted them.

I made a huge order for various schillerianas and they arrived a bit chilled but in perfect condition. They all cleaned up nicely although one had quite a few rotten mushy roots. She had enough healthy ones that she's fine. I know that they've been getting mixed reviews lately so I just want to say it's hit or miss? I've only received one order from them so far so it might not be a fair assessment. They do have such a large variety of orchids and reasonable prices that its a hard company to write off.

I've since made another order for various phals (phals and vandas are my favorites so far but i also really like some catasetum types) so we'll see what condition they arrive in.

[fooferdoggie]

I have had a couple good orders a couple bad. the black phal was really good the panda sucked. but has recovered after almost a year and now is blooming twice this year.

[TomThumb]

Yah. I've read some bad things about orchids arriving half dead in some reviews. I'm hoping that they improved their service but who knows. I wouldn't order anything too rare/delicate from then right now but phals are pretty hardy and seem to bounce back ok.

I love the panda btw. Haven't ordered it but it's on my wishlist. Which one is the black Phal? I think I saw one but it's $85 and in not ready for that commitment yet....

[Leafmite]

Good luck! I hope your next order is just as good! They do offer some beautiful orchids! I have never ordered from them because of the reviews, though.

[TomThumb]

Thanks! Yeah. I feel ok ordering hardier plants from them. I hope they got their act together because they really do have some amazing plants.

[MrHappyRotter]

You lucked out, time to go buy a lottery ticket!

I can confirm, from a recent terrible experience, that they do not have their act together, unfortunately.

I would caution anybody who is considering ordering from there to reconsider. I'm not just saying that because I'm a displeased former customer. I'm saying that because I know that we orchid people tend to implicitly trust other orchid people, and this vendor unscrupulously takes advantage of that trust. I'm saying it because some of us can't afford to toss our money into the trash without a second thought, so when we make a big purchase, it actually hurts when things arrive sick and misidentified. And I know what it's like to be alight with anticipation and excitement knowing a coveted plant or few are on their way, only to open the box and have that sinking feeling of disappointment hit you in the gut, then to be topped off by frustration and stress as you try to (often unsuccessfully) navigate some form of recourse.

For me, it's really not worth the gamble. And if my experience can save others a bit of negativity and stress in their lives, at least some good can come of it.

[TomThumb]

MrHappyRotter,

Would you mind telling me your experience? Did ppl receive sick/infested plants? I only ordered phals so I just cleaned and wiped them down with alcohol pretty thoroughly to be sure they didnt have spider mites. I didnt see any other issues.

I made another order of just phals (miniature though so they might be more delicate). I hope they arrive in good condition.

[MrHappyRotter]

Originally Posted by TomThumb

MrHappyRotter,

Would you mind telling me your experience?

The whole experience was a fiasco, there was hardly any part of it that wasn't unsatisfactory. It was so bad in so many ways, I'm not even sure I'll touch on everything that went wrong or was an issue -- honestly it was that bad.

Major Issues

1. Misidentified / mislabeled plant - The whole reason I placed the order was because it's the only US retailer I've found that had a plant I've been seriously and actively seeking for at least 5 years. When the plant arrived, it was clearly and undeniably mislabeled, and it was one of those cases where, based solely on the foliage, you could absolutely determine it was not accurately labeled. Still, it took over a month of multiple phone calls and round after round of emails to resolve, and I even had to involve a 3rd party vendor to confirm the misidentification. When they finally agreed to refund the money, I had to pay out of pocket to ship the plant back, and they never properly compensated me for that added expense. To top it off, they still list the cross on their website, knowing for a fact, that what they are selling is misidentified. That, to me, seems like fraud.

2. Suspected misidentified / mislabeled plant - Aside from the plant I mentioned above which was the primary reason for the order, I decided to purchase 2 additional orchids. One of those extra orchids was seemingly a good value given the size of the plant and the parentage. I also do not believe that this plant is correctly labeled, though the foliage isn't as conclusive as the previously mentioned plant, so I can only wait for it to bloom before I have confirmation. I'm certain that Norman's won't provide any recourse here so I've just written the plant off as a loss and I can only hope I'm wrong no matter how unlikely that is in this case. It was also in questionable health when it arrived, though fortunately it has begun to recover as of late.

General Complaints

1. Order fulfillment time - This was one of the more minor inconveniences, but there was (IIRC) a week or more of lag from the time I placed the order before it was fulfilled. This is more excusable for a small-time operation or hobbyist grower, but you generally expect a professional, commercial operation to be a little more responsive, especially given the shipping & handling rates.

2. General policy - After you open the box of plants, you see they provide a disclaimer that says you're not allowed to repot the plants for 30 days (I forget the exact amount of time), otherwise it voids the return/warranty. Repotting the plants upon arrival is my way of ensuring that the roots are in good shape and that there are no animal hitchhikers. While I can understand they don't want novice growers repotting plants that are in bloom and then trying to get a refund when the flowers drop, having a blanket policy that even applies to out-of-bloom plants comes across as a way to dissuade people from noticing major issues until after the refund warranty period is over (i.e a scam). Imagine buying a car and after the loan/check is signed they tell you that you can't take it to a mechanic to inspect the engine or they'll void the warranty and if you want to bring it back within the return period you have to pay them 25% to take it back.

3. No guarantee on in-spike/bloom plants - I bought a third plant in-bloom, expecting to be able to enjoy it for awhile, but it turned out it was at the very end of its bloom period. The flowers were faded/fading upon arrival and were not fragrant as advertised. Most places excuse themselves of any liability/guarantee in this situation, so I can over look it, but it still reflects poorly since ideally they'd keep the website up-to-date and if the flowers are fading or near the end of their lifespan, it seems reasonable that a vendor would update the status in the catalog or at least contact the buyer in the week+ of time between when the order is placed and when it is finally fulfilled.

4. Professionalism - As pretty much everybody that's ever had issues with these folks mentions, their customer service is atrocious. Some of the employees are downright rude and dismissive (it's not all of them, so I'm sorry to those employees who are courteous and helpful), even when you're nice and polite with them. It takes several days or more to get any response from them via email and even phone calls don't normally get much of a response unless you're calling to make a purchase because the person or persons who can help are seemingly never around. In the course of trying to resolve the issues I had with my order, I ended up dealing with 4 different email addresses from 3 different domains some from what appeared to be personal email accounts -- that just seems fishy. And they are extremely reluctant to rectify any issues with the order, even issues that are entirely their fault.

Overall

So overall, I ended up with 2 plants that I wouldn't have purchased otherwise, one of which I'm 90+ percent sure is misidentified and was in questionable condition upon arrival. In addition, I had to spend quite a bit of my time to beg for a refund and use my own money to ship back a plant because they mistakenly (or otherwise) sent one that was mislabeled.

I will say that Norman himself was polite with me over email, and that the "probably shouldn't have been advertised as in-spike" plant has since rebloomed and I am happy with it even if I wouldn't have purchased it otherwise. However, in all the years I've been in the hobby, I've never had such a bad experience with an orchid vendor. The experience was leaps and bounds worse than Seattle Orchid, and that's saying something.

[TomThumb]

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

The whole experience was a fiasco, there was hardly any part of it that wasn't unsatisfactory. It was so bad in so many ways, I'm not even sure I'll touch on everything that went wrong or was an issue -- honestly it was that bad.

Major Issues

1. Misidentified / mislabeled plant - The whole reason I placed the order was because it's the only US retailer I've found that had a plant I've been seriously and actively seeking for at least 5 years. When the plant arrived, it was clearly and undeniably mislabeled, and it was one of those cases where, based solely on the foliage, you could absolutely determine it was not accurately labeled. Still, it took over a month of multiple phone calls and round after round of emails to resolve, and I even had to involve a 3rd party vendor to confirm the misidentification. When they finally agreed to refund the money, I had to pay out of pocket to ship the plant back, and they never properly compensated me for that added expense. To top it off, they still list the cross on their website, knowing for a fact, that what they are selling is misidentified. That, to me, seems like fraud.

2. Suspected misidentified / mislabeled plant - Aside from the plant I mentioned above which was the primary reason for the order, I decided to purchase 2 additional orchids. One of those extra orchids was seemingly a good value given the size of the plant and the parentage. I also do not believe that this plant is correctly labeled, though the foliage isn't as conclusive as the previously mentioned plant, so I can only wait for it to bloom before I have confirmation. I'm certain that Norman's won't provide any recourse here so I've just written the plant off as a loss and I can only hope I'm wrong no matter how unlikely that is in this case. It was also in questionable health when it arrived, though fortunately it has begun to recover as of late.

Wow. That's really disappointing. I can't believe they didn't foot the cost of the return since it was their fault. It could be that they actually did have the correct plant and sent out the wrong one but did not want to be responsible for any extra shipping fees to return or to send out the correct one so they just denied the mistake. I woudlnt be surprised if that were the case at all considering their lack of professionalism.

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

General Complaints

1. Order fulfillment time - This was one of the more minor inconveniences, but there was (IIRC) a week or more of lag from the time I placed the order before it was fulfilled. This is more excusable for a small-time operation or hobbyist grower, but you generally expect a professional, commercial operation to be a little more responsive, especially given the shipping & handling rates.

They might have a new system in place now. When i ordered they have the customer select a delivery date and indeed my package was delivered on the date i selected. Of course i selected a date that was about 10 days away from my order date since i wanted to make sure i had pots ready and waiting. Perhaps if i had selected a more pressing date they would have had trouble fulfilling my order and not notify me that it was late or etc. Since it is colder now on the east coast of the U.S. i also checked the weather to select a warmer date for my incoming order. Hopefully they dont miss the date and send it on a rainy day -____-.

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

2. General policy - After you open the box of plants, you see they provide a disclaimer that says you're not allowed to repot the plants for 30 days (I forget the exact amount of time), otherwise it voids the return/warranty. Repotting the plants upon arrival is my way of ensuring that the roots are in good shape and that there are no animal hitchhikers. While I can understand they don't want novice growers repotting plants that are in bloom and then trying to get a refund when the flowers drop, having a blanket policy that even applies to out-of-bloom plants comes across as a way to dissuade people from noticing major issues until after the refund warranty period is over (i.e a scam). Imagine buying a car and after the loan/check is signed they tell you that you can't take it to a mechanic to inspect the engine or they'll void the warranty and if you want to bring it back within the return period you have to pay them 25% to take it back.

Yeah, i agree that this policy is not in the customer's best interest. I also saw this on their invoice and repotted anyway. I was lucky that i didnt have any actively rotting roots although one plant lost half it's roots due to being soaked in wet compacted sphag. I dind't have to cut them off. they just fell off. I know that sphag is supposed to be good if used correctly but i have yet to receive an orchid packed in sphag that wasn't packed super tight without any air space. I definitely had some unhappy roots but they are fine after the repot.

Norman's is at least using clear soft plastic containers for their plants so you can see the the roots pressed against the sides but you can't see the roots at the center which were the ones that suffered the most. Still this means at least that you can see if the plant has enough good roots to survive before unpotting.

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

3. No guarantee on in-spike/bloom plants - I bought a third plant in-bloom, expecting to be able to enjoy it for awhile, but it turned out it was at the very end of its bloom period. The flowers were faded/fading upon arrival and were not fragrant as advertised. Most places excuse themselves of any liability/guarantee in this situation, so I can over look it, but it still reflects poorly since ideally they'd keep the website up-to-date and if the flowers are fading or near the end of their lifespan, it seems reasonable that a vendor would update the status in the catalog or at least contact the buyer in the week+ of time between when the order is placed and when it is finally fulfilled.

I do think this happened because they got too large and don't necessarily hire people who care about plants or have plants. As a result to these workers if a plant has a spike it has a spike. It doesnt matter to them what collectors/hobbyists care about.

As for my in spike/ in bloom plants, the in spike plant actually really was newly in spike. The first bud is barely there right now. And my blooming phal has four blooms opened and four buds on arrival. The fifth bloom opened the day after it arrived. Perhaps they are more conscientious now and trained their employees better after the situation with you and other's like it?

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

4. Professionalism - As pretty much everybody that's ever had issues with these folks mentions, their customer service is atrocious. Some of the employees are downright rude and dismissive (it's not all of them, so I'm sorry to those employees who are courteous and helpful), even when you're nice and polite with them. It takes several days or more to get any response from them via email and even phone calls don't normally get much of a response unless you're calling to make a purchase because the person or persons who can help are seemingly never around. In the course of trying to resolve the issues I had with my order, I ended up dealing with 4 different email addresses from 3 different domains some from what appeared to be personal email accounts -- that just seems fishy. And they are extremely reluctant to rectify any issues with the order, even issues that are entirely their fault.

THIS.

Originally Posted by MrHappyRotter

Overall

So overall, I ended up with 2 plants that I wouldn't have purchased otherwise, one of which I'm 90+ percent sure is misidentified and was in questionable condition upon arrival. In addition, I had to spend quite a bit of my time to beg for a refund and use my own money to ship back a plant because they mistakenly (or otherwise) sent one that was mislabeled.

I will say that Norman himself was polite with me over email, and that the "probably shouldn't have been advertised as in-spike" plant has since rebloomed and I am happy with it even if I wouldn't have purchased it otherwise. However, in all the years I've been in the hobby, I've never had such a bad experience with an orchid vendor. The experience was leaps and bounds worse than Seattle Orchid, and that's saying something.

I think it really is hit or miss. I held out ordering the schills from them for about a week or two. I was searching other sites and thinking about it but i really wanted them so i decided to bite the bullet and order.

Norman's also has more extensive info on their listings than many other vendors which is helpful when you're looking specifically for a large blooming fuschia/purple phal. (present for my mom who complained that the other one i ordered for her was too small.) I think for me this is one of the selling points as I like to know where my orchid is from instead of knowing it as just another generic phal schilleriana or what have you.

I'm really hoping they're taking small steps to improvements. I will update when my next order comes in. I will be kicking myself if/when i receive a sick orchid. And if they're all healthy i will be estatic.

(BTW i just received an order of a rhy. gigantea in horrible condition from a reportedly good vendor so who knows. This rhy. has extensive scarring on it's second oldest leaf and oddly enough it's oldest leaf is larger than it's subsequent leaves. There;s also some stem below this large leaf so that leads me to believe this was a stem propagation(?) and it did not do too well. Either way the plant arrived with all it's roots dead and one tiny nubbin of a new root poking out. It might also have rot or some other disease as it's leaves are spotted. However i haven't found any bad reviews on this vendor?! Admittedly they are quite cheap in comparison to places like orchidweb or norman's for the same plant but this was still very disappointing. It was cheap for what it was but it wasn't free.)

[fooferdoggie]

with me it was a vanda. the bottom of the roots were rotten from over watering and the leaves were brown on the edges and split. took a year to recover and now it has bloomed twice in 3 months., the wrong color but still nice.