What's the etiquette rule?

[ron-in-norcal]

David, how accurate are those tests? Is there a way to know? I'm just wondering if it's possible to get a false positive or anything like that. It'd be horrible to be throwing away plants that are not actually virused. Of course, even worse is for a bad plant to infect all the others (how do virii spread on orchids, through chewing insects or being near an infected one, or is that known?). At any rate, sorry about the issues, that's terrible.

[escualida]

Well a little update, I've already posted a bit about this in a separate thread (http://www.orchidboard.com/community...v-testing.html) but I'll give a summary here anyway.

I tested all of my plants (about 40) and 5 of them came back positive for viruses, and three of those five came from orchids.com (Norman's). Coincidence? I think not!

I told them about this and they sent me some BS spiel basically not wanting to take responsibility. But I insisted and they finally agreed to give me a refund IF I sent the plants back to them. I asked for an exchange instead (I REALLY loved the plants I had bought) and they refused (IMHO I think they know certain clones have viruses and they knew I would test them so they didn't want to send them to me).

I had to send the plants back (why? why would they want diseased plants back? this still really bugs me because the other 2 sellers told me to just throw away the virused plants. I really think they just turned around and resold them to someone other poor unsuspecting customer). Then they also cancelled my account. Presumably so I can't order from them again (not that I ever intend to).

I honestly think orchids.com is knowingly selling virused plants and they can obviously get away with it because I'm sure most of their customers don't test them.

Ugh, how can we ever expect to eradicate these viruses with sellers like these?

[DavidCampen]

Originally Posted by ron-in-norcal

David, how accurate are those tests? Is there a way to know? I'm just wondering if it's possible to get a false positive or anything like that. It'd be horrible to be throwing away plants that are not actually virused. Of course, even worse is for a bad plant to infect all the others (how do virii spread on orchids, through chewing insects or being near an infected one, or is that known?)....

I have not seen any validation studies on the Agdia Imuunostrip and EISA tests for CymMv and ORSV but I have seen one somewhere on the internet for these products for a different virus and they were highly reliable. Agdia makes and sells virus tests for many viruses that are used mostly by commercial growers, I doubt that they would stay in business very long if their tests were inaccurate.

At any rate, sorry about the issues, that's terrible.

Lots of other people can use your sympathy too; anyone with more than a few plants likely has at least some that are infected with pathogenic viruses.

[ron-in-norcal]

I had to deal a lot with the virus issue when I was in the rose business. I actually had not known about orchids having viruses until very recently, but I guess just about any plant can get them. With roses, the only undoubted way they could get a virus was via grafting, where one part was virused. How do orchids get them?

[DavidCampen]

CymMV and ORSV are not _known_ to be transmitted by insect vectors, they are known to be transmitted mechanically when sap from an infected plant contacts a wound on another plant. Orchid Flec virus, now common in Australia, is known to be transmitted by some mites and mechanically.

These viruses are also transmitted to clones and through divisions.

I know of one grower who had a lab clone one of his award winning plants. He says that the mother plant was tested and was virus free when tissue was sent to the lab for cloning but now that the clones are big enough to sell he has discovered that they are all infected with CymMV.

Young seed grown plants should generally be virus free.

Orchid fleck virus: Brevipalpus californicus... [Exp Appl Acarol. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

[ron-in-norcal]

That's good knowledge to have, David. Thanks for taking the time to post. With roses they've discovered a type of "heat treatment" than can eliminate virii in nodes, which can then be grafted onto clean stock so that we now have virus-free clones of varieties that were previously only available with virus. I'm guessing there's no known way to rid any orchid of virus. I've always heard that all virus strains on anything are difficult or practically impossible to eradicate.

[DavidCampen]

There has been some success in eliminating CymMV and ORSV during tissue culture using antiviral drugs.
Google

[ron-in-norcal]

Glad to hear that, and thanks for the link. Interesting idea.

[bballr4567]

And all that should be in a different thread dont you think guys and gals?

Hopefully we can get a mod to move it.

[shadytrake]

Well, I was going to drop in Norman's the next time I go to visit customers in LA but now I'm thinking not. I might just go and browse.

I would never order from them online after reading the stories. Wonder if purchasing in person would be different especially if the orchid was in bloom?

Of course, that doesn't rule out the virus issue....