Odd experience - Carter/Holmes

[coirchoir]

Well I have had an odd experience with Carter & Holmes to say the least.
I had ordered 5-6 dugup orchids and a peperomia houseplant to replace a similar plant. The plants arrived, looked beautiful and healthy, and being a newbie especially with dugups, got fresh potting material I read their instructions carefully, and sat me down to follow everything to the letter.
They said "Trimming Roots: Trimming roots encourages new root production. We trim the roots of most orchids (except Slipper types) that we transplant or repot to reach about three-quarters of the way to the bottom of the container selected. However, we generally do not remove any roots before shipping orchids to customers bare root....."

Even though it broke my heart to trim down the strong vibrant looking roots, I followed their instructions exactly as stated and trimmed ALL the roots to reach about 3/4 of the way to the bottom of the containers.
For the next few months the Cattleya stagnated and after many months I took a fresh look at the roots and found them rotted, and now its dead, the dendrobium stayed barely alive, grew a new shoot, and still seems to be struggling. The 1 phal got a single new root forming but the leaves turned dull, wilted and fell off. no survivors except the struggling dend.
Imagine my shock when, at the NCOS Orchid show in DC, in October last year, I talked with Tina Wood sitting at the Orchid Doctor's table (Gene Schurz? of NCOS was also there) and she said I should ONLY HAVE TRIMMMED THE DEAD ROOTS, not live ones!!

I immediately wrote C&H and asked them if that was what their instructions were said to mean??? If so please could they correct their web as well as print instructions to read so, I also added that my comments were mainly meant to help future customers.

Mac of C&H immediately wrote back, was gracious in acknowledging their error, somewhat, saying...

"We do cut live roots as necessary. But, after reading your email, I read through our care instructions for the first time in quite a while, and I do think they need updating and fleshing out. For instance, we don't say much about selecting the proper pot size, which would definitely affect how many roots, dead or alive, should be cut.

I'll email an up-dated copy when I get to it in the next few days.

I'd be happy to send some extra plants at no charge w/ your next order to make up for any confusion. For that matter, if you don't plan to order from us again, I can just wait till Spring and send you a few bare root plants at no charge."

I figured that since they made an offer to replace, without my explicitly having asked, for it, they would honor their committment in Spring as well; and it would be better for the plants to adjust to my home during the Spring/Summer rather than the extra stress of the then current winter, so I told them I'd wait for the replacements till spring.

Well when Spring rolled around, I wrote them four weeks ago, end May, reminding them, and didn't hear back. I thought they'd email an immediate response. I sent a reminder 2 weeks later - still no response. Plus I checked their website, and the instructions also haven't changed.

Seems odd - perhaps this is their peak season and they're busy filling orders! And they will get to me eventually.

And I want to tell all the folks who are buying their dugups, especially newbies - DONT trim ALL the roots - just dead ones; DONT follow all instructions literally.

And if I don't hear back - I may not plan on buying anything from them again...

[rogerman]

Fair enough.....I'd say you have every right to think like that especially when you say you are a newbie..... Orchids are one plant that takes a lot of learning to do everything completely right.....After four years and millions of plants (I grow commercially) I am still learning. To look at the way others do it is also amazing to me since conditions are sooo different from what I have. I normally don't cut any roots except for Vandas when their roots can get up to about 4-5 foot long
Cattleyas and Dendrobiums are usually potted in a solid block of coconut husk and impossible to repot, but i've had some of my plants for four years and all i have done is put them into bigger pots and put extra coconut around to fit the pot

[Duane McDowell]

Carter and Holmes has always had the highest reputation for excellent plants and first-class service. I've never had any trouble with them or with their plants.
I agree that the whole root-trimming instruction is a little weird. I have needed to break roots on dugups to fit them into a pot sometimes, when the roots have rambled too far, so I understand why they mentioned it. If I had been writing the care sheet, I would have said something like "soak the plants for 20 minutes in room temperature water so that the roots are pliant, and then pot them in the appropriate pot for the size of the plant. Don't worry if a root breaks - it will probably branch." or something like that.... I wish you the best!

[ronaldhanko]

Weirdest advice I ever heard. They should replace your plants.

[Gin]

I agree they should replace them it was their instructions that caused the trouble . I have bought quite a bit from them with no problems , but have not had need to read their instructions ..I would copy the reply you got promising to send in the spring and email them again as many times as it takes ..

[coirchoir]

Thanks all for the good feedback.
Rogerman I have been doing this orchid thing for a few years myself - the only thing I've been successful with has been a sharry baby and that's been enough to take me on a roller coaster orchid education ride - through its incredible annual flowering and a few years later, ant infestation and resuscitation, and dividing afetr which only one half is now still flowering. I tried my hand at nursing a flask but not having all the range of equipment and expertise that would allow me to grow the seedlings, I learnt my limits there. So I thought I'd try something a little less dicey - a few dugups would be something I could handle. Guess moral of the story is one shd read multiple advice/culture sheets...it does take a lot of learning to egt everything right - even when things dont go right there's no way of saying 100% this or that, except in this situation all plants had the same thing done to them..
Duane - I agree C&H seem to be a good vendor and have ahd a lot of happy press; but their instructions do need work. your modified language for their care sheet is probably spot on - and I will pass it on to them as a suggestion when I send them my next reminder :0
Ron and Gin - I agree; will give them a couple more weeks and then write again!

[Jerry Delaney]

Ok, I am going to be the "odd person out" here. Carter & Holmes (to my knowledge) still trim the roots on their own plants. It was a common practice with many Catt breeders/growers many years ago and many still use that practice today. Everyone's culture methods are different. It doesn't necessarily make one method wrong and another right; it just makes them different. I am NOT going to advocate that everyone start trimming their roots. However it was and still is a common practice with many growers. I have followed this practice for nearly 30 years now and have never had a problem related to that practice. It evidently is not the standard practice for most here on the "Board", but please, I will not criticize all of those here who do not trim the roots when repotting if you don't criticize those who follow the trimming practice. There are sound reasons for both methods. Carter and Holmes has been a consistent source for good, healthy Catts and will remain high on my vendor list.

[coirchoir]

Hi Jerry -
Glad you have a different point of view.
Perhaps we can all learn.
Do you think ALL roots should be trimmed, and do you think they shd be trimmed 3/4 of the way down to the base of the pot? Just really asking to learn. Remember, these are supposed to be dug ups for 4" pots to begin with. The height of the pot itself is not more than 4-5" too. SO 3/4 of the way would mean keeping only about 3-4" of root - i.e. less than half of the length of the root it came with!! Lovely plump heathy roots! Now that I think of it, I should have questioned that right away - but the C&H website, and instructions and packing and the plants all looked so professionally done that I shut down the quiet voice in my heart and yielded to what I thought were the experts.
No matter the difference in trimming practice - something seems wrong with those combination of instructions.

[Jerry Delaney]

Paphs and Phrags are about the only genera that I don't trim back routinely and on many occasions I will trim the roots on Phrags. One of the things that makes orchids different from most plants is the fact that they do not form a main permanent root system. When you repot a plant, most of the roots present on the plant are going to die. Some do this quite rapidly, others take longer. I have always felt that leaving a huge mass of roots that may die and rot fairly soon after repotting is a good way to speed up the breakdown of your potting media. I usually trim the roots so that they do not go down into the pot more than 2/3 to 3/4 of the way. We all have our own favorite potting media, watering schedules, etc as well as variable growing conditions. What works for me (or for Carter and Holmes) may spell sure death for you or other growers. Please understand, I am not criticizing you or others if potting with untrimmed roots works for you. I do object though that what I consider to be a reliable source for quality orchids be condemned for recommending a procedure that has been successful in their hands for years.

[coirchoir]

Hi -
when I asked "Do you think ALL roots should be trimmed, and do you think they shd be trimmed 3/4 of the way down to the base of the pot? " I was not asking whether ALL TYPES of orchids shd be trimmed - but you answered to that which is also a good point; but my question was do you trim ALL the healthy roots of an orchid you are potting? Doesn't that leave the orchid reeling on all fronts? Perhaps if you trim SOME roots and leave others intact it has less work healing etc.. Also are orchid roots like stems of a rose plant that you trim and ill stimulate growth at the node below??