Norman's Orchids/orchids.com

[cb977]

Originally Posted by goodgollymissmolly

It seems these forums gang up on a vendor from time to time. We have plants here described as wet when received via FedEX 2nd Day Air. They certainly look bad, but I can't tell whether they are frozen or soaked beyond belief.

This shipment would have come through Memphis at around midnight (as all Fed EX air shipments) on Tuesday or Wednesday night (I can't tell for sure from the post when the customer got these). It was raining in Memphis with 0.5 in on Wed and over an inch on Thursday. The temp was between 20 and 30 degrees. The high temp in Pierre SD was in the mid 20's on Thursday with a blizzard expected.

So it's hard for me to figure why someone in SD would order plants in late December especially with a long range forecast as bad as it has been over the Xmas week. It's not possible to tell how or when these plants got cold or wet or both because there were many opportunities. I seriously doubt any vendor would ship wet plants in cold weather.

Then we have a self proclaimed ex employee slamming the vendor. I wonder how the vendor might describe the ex? Is there an ax grinding there? I do not know, but believing any of this is far fetched for sure. Employers usually refrain from negative public comments about ex employees. Looks like a good employee would do the same. Let's just say that describing oneself as King of Orchid Growing is a bit egotistical for my taste.

Before jumping on the pile it might be wise to realize that you do not know the customer or his expectations, motives, or general orchid knowledge. One person on this forum pulled a similar stunt against another vendor to get a second set of plants which she offered for sale. I'm not saying this person did that, but you don't know one way or the other. It's peculiar that two other vendors also sent shipments that this customer found fault with. Maybe he is just unlucky, but much of unlucky is really poor planning.

I buy a hell of a lot of plants (including some from Norman's) and I have never had all these problems that various people describe. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it's also possible that some people are not exercising good judgment when ordering and in communicating with the vendor about appropriate shipping dates based on weather expectations. Part of the responsibility is personal responsibility. I would never expect a vendor to know as much about my weather as I do.

See how quickly a nice conversation can turn ugly?

I don't like it at all

The first post from you in quite some time and it's nasty...



Now let's get back to our adult non-hostile thread or I close it down

[phaladdict]

All I wanted was nice phalaenopsis for Christmas. Since I couldn't find any decent or unique ones around my area, I decided to go online. And since I am phal addict, I ended up buying 2 phals. I knew some risks involved with shipping plants, but I was never expecting 2 near-death and soaking wet plants. It is frustrating... I don't want it to be that people in up north can't get their hands on orchids during this time of the year. There must be a way...

[cb977]

Unfortunately, bad weather is a concern for folks in your area and other places. Most of the folks I know have a cut-off date for ordering orchids online. If your orchids had come from a vendor with a well-known good reputation the weather would be most likely (but not absolute) be the reason. Then, I would think the responsibility falls on the person placing an order during winter. In this case, unfortunately again, a number of people have had personal bad experiences with the inventory from Norman's which is the only reason we're thinking it's not just a weather thing.

[phaladdict]

I agree. I mean the box was completely dry and in perfect condition. That makes me wonder what have happened to those poor chids.

[stefpix]

Maybe the package was in Memphis for 30 min on the tarmac at the Fedex shipping facility and with 20 F it froze and then defrosted ina warm hangar causing condensation.

I left my wandering jew overnight on the first night the temp went in the 20s F and the next day it was mushy and dead. luckily i had a few rooted cuttings inside and wonder if it will come back.
anyway those Phals do not look too different than soemthing you can get at Ikea or Home Depot. They even have those fake red berries.

I see nice stuff / primary hybrids or stuff with tags at Trader Joe's.
I would not buy spiking blooming plants expecially in this weather. probably the phals can come back.

Or just buy off ebay by a vendor that ships out from a northern part of teh country. so they know how to pack or when to ship in these weather conditions.
Larry's orchids sent me a Coelogyne with a free heat pack. he has some nice Phal species.
if all the plants died when it is winter they would be closed for the season.

[chris_todd]

Originally Posted by cb977

See how quickly a nice conversation can turn ugly?

I don't like it at all

The first post from you in quite some time and it's nasty...



Now let's get back to our adult non-hostile thread or I close it down

Please don't shut this thread down, Susanne. As a newbie to the forum, and to orchid growing, and being completely ignorant of the available vendors, I appreciate the information.

Democracy is never pretty, and difference of opinion frequently gets contentious, and quite frankly, I can see good arguments on both sides - maybe Norman is a jerk, maybe he isn't, and maybe ordering orchids in December when you live in a cold climate is unwise, and maybe we should all expect better of UPS/FEDEX/USPS - or perhaps we shouldn't. Either way, I have yet to see a convincing conclusion about the ultimate cause for the OP's orchid arriving in bad shape... So I'd appreciate a little more discussion and information.

[stefpix]

Agree with Chris.
information is good from all sides.And everyone's experience may be different.

Also this is the worst week of the year for shipping with all those xmas packages exchanges and so on.

Also if someone acts like a jerk and talks like a jerk in an abusive way somehow it will come out.
It is nice to was the dirty laundry at home - but sometimes you have to take it out.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

Originally Posted by chris_todd

Please don't shut this thread down, Susanne. As a newbie to the forum, and to orchid growing, and being completely ignorant of the available vendors, I appreciate the information.

Democracy is never pretty, and difference of opinion frequently gets contentious, and quite frankly, I can see good arguments on both sides - maybe Norman is a jerk, maybe he isn't, and maybe ordering orchids in December when you live in a cold climate is unwise, and maybe we should all expect better of UPS/FEDEX/USPS - or perhaps we shouldn't. Either way, I have yet to see a convincing conclusion about the ultimate cause for the OP's orchid arriving in bad shape... So I'd appreciate a little more discussion and information.

This is really not an easy one to say definitively as to what the real cause of why the plants showed up in such poor condition.

The original posting reflects that.

My original posting gives no definitive reasons for why the plants ended up the way they did.

I simply made the suggestion that Phaladdict not purchase orchids during the winter, heat pack or no heat pack because where she lives, it snows in the winters. Then proceeded to say that customer service might not be forthcoming or willing to deal with such an issue.

If the plant is leaving CA to SD, that's a very long distance to travel. There's no saying what can happen, especially if the package is going through lots of areas with harsh weather.

I simply suggested that this factor be eliminated.

I also made the suggestion to go to a relatively closer orchid nursery.

The damage appears largely to be caused by harsh climactic conditions.

However...

I'm not sure whether Norman's Orchids did their best to ship the best plants possible as well.

If I were the seller, I wouldn't have shipped an orchid that was mostly in full bloom. The only exception to this rule would be if they were free flowering Pleurothallids. The flowers would wilt too soon. I would've probably sent a plant that had only one or two flowers in full bloom, the other would be flowers would still be in bud. That way the hobbyist can enjoy the flowers longer.

Norman knows this. I know he does. Eric was the one who trained me and he even told me this.

Of course there's always the seller's proviso of: "They would ship a plant in spike or in bloom, and make sure that they package it correctly to the best of their ability, but they're not responsible for the condition that the flower(s) or the spike(s) will be in when the package arrives to the hobbyist."

I also want to add, I'm sure Norman is somewhat aware of what the general climate might be like in a state as far north as South Dakota. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the probability of such a place snowing in the winter is very high. The dude may be Taiwanese, but he's been in business in the US for quite a while. If he was really clueless, he could've asked his friend who works with him in the office, the dude's Korean-American who speaks perfect English and has obviously been in the US for ages. Then there's Norman's younger sister, who speaks English pretty well, so obviously she's been in the US for a while. Even though Norman's sister doesn't work at the nursery, she has her own little shop in Downtown LA and is only a phone call away. She does occasionally drop by the nursery.

Look...there's also the thing where Norman's Orchids is an importer of orchids from Taiwan. He also makes shipments regularly to other smaller nurseries around the nation as well as to hobbyists. When I was putting orders together, I didn't have time to think about where the package was going to. If it had to go, it had to go.

This is where the buyer needs to be aware of this and protect themselves.

[ronaldhanko]

It seems to me that the simple solution is not to order in cold weather. I order nothing from mid-November to the end of February. Why take the chance of destroying plants - no matter how careful the vendor may be you are depending not only on them but on the USPS, Fedex, UPS or some other shipper and they are notoriously careless with shipments of live plants - it's not deliberate, but they just don't know how to take care of them.

[King_of_orchid_growing:)]

...Now if you want to talk about the quality of the plants from Norman's Orchids and their hygiene, well...that's what me and Susanne were talking about.

But we're not the only ones talking about this problem...

Apparently others on the OB have expressed this frustration as well.

Make no mistake about it, I know Norman is very well aware of this issue. Don't take this guy for a fool, he's not.

When I managed the "species greenhouse" (there're mostly species in this greenhouse, but there're a good portion of hybrids as well), some of my orders were to consolidate each type of orchid together, put aside plants that didn't have a tag or proper identification and send them to the other workers whose job was to tag the plants, make an inventory list, make sure that I pulled the weeds out of the plants, AND hand the orchids that needed to be repotted to the repotting station.

See...I told you he knew...

But...when I handed the plants with the moss rotted down to dirt (I'm not exaggerating with this description - and believe me there were trays full of them), I was yelled at.

So...there, I'm not letting him slide on this. This was my job. I'm finishing what he told me to do even after I was FIRED!