What the heck?? I don't understand their response.

[Ethan]

I recently purchased 3 phal NOIDs from HD which I submitted a post about a little while ago.

I sent an email with photos to the vendor which is Westerlay Orchids in CA to see if they could identify them for me. It was a quick response, but I'm a bit perplexed here was their response:


"Thank you for your inquiry, and we are glad that you appreciate the quality of our plants. At this time, the company does not identify its orchids by name. A numeric coding system is used, so there is no additional information that can be provided regarding your phals."

I don't understand how a nursery can grow/breed/sell/whatever orchids w/out knowing their names. Has anyone ever heard of this???

[priz_m]

Bummer! well, give them the numbers then, they must have a dusty old database that matches the number to a name, no? unless is something really un-useful like

321654 - red phal

[Swamper]

SOunds like mass production of some sort and then they become numbers. On the bright side you have to give them credit. From Cal. to Ohio is a decent trek and they looked awesome. Here they travel 10 miles and a lot of times they look like crap.

[Ethan]

hehe you are too funny! I was thinking the same thing, though - there's got to be a name that matches the number somewhere............

[priz_m]

just to add up, I was on their website, and well, you can't expect much from a site where it's orchid list is under construction :P

[Aceetobe]

I'll take a quote from a commercial grower/hybridizer:

"You are wrong! We label nothing as it leaves the nursery. Firstly, wholesale customers do not want any tags listing a source nursery as they fear customers going behind their backs and dealing directly with a source. Some customers don't want even care tags attached to shipped plants as they like to use their own again with their own contact info displayed. There have for example been some Paph. Pinnochio alba seedlings leave the nursery, unlabelled, which suddenly appear in the AOS awards as Paph. primulinum! A sad indictment on the AOS judges and maybe even the exhibitor.

It is also a simple matter of economics. We sell approxiamtely six million blooming orchid plants a year. I believe the bare minimum cost to print a label and affix it in each pot at point of sale would be 10 cents. That's $600,000 a year folks. Whose pocket is the money better in? It's a no-brainer."

And another quote from an orchid vendor:

"Unfortunately, Westerlay has no clue as to their plants identity. They produce their own and broker others plants. This plant is a seedling or meristem that they brokered from another. You can identify the cymbidiums they produce as they are all grown in a terracotta colored pot.

I used to represent their largest supplier of orchids in Japan and they threw away all identifying materials on receipt of plants."

[Zoi2]

No wonder I never see tags at HD and others. Thanks for the info.

Joann

[Ethan]

Originally Posted by Aceetobe

I'll take a quote from a commercial grower/hybridizer:

"You are wrong! We label nothing as it leaves the nursery. Firstly, wholesale customers do not want any tags listing a source nursery as they fear customers going behind their backs and dealing directly with a source. Some customers don't want even care tags attached to shipped plants as they like to use their own again with their own contact info displayed. There have for example been some Paph. Pinnochio alba seedlings leave the nursery, unlabelled, which suddenly appear in the AOS awards as Paph. primulinum! A sad indictment on the AOS judges and maybe even the exhibitor.

It is also a simple matter of economics. We sell approxiamtely six million blooming orchid plants a year. I believe the bare minimum cost to print a label and affix it in each pot at point of sale would be 10 cents. That's $600,000 a year folks. Whose pocket is the money better in? It's a no-brainer."

And another quote from an orchid vendor:

"Unfortunately, Westerlay has no clue as to their plants identity. They produce their own and broker others plants. This plant is a seedling or meristem that they brokered from another. You can identify the cymbidiums they produce as they are all grown in a terracotta colored pot.

I used to represent their largest supplier of orchids in Japan and they threw away all identifying materials on receipt of plants."

Wow - this is very eye-opening. Ok, I understand the economics - $600,000 is a lot of money when the average person doesn't care about an id. And I understand the wholesaler not wanting their customer to go behind their back. That all makes sense.

What gets me is the second quote from Westerlay Orchids (which is where my phals came from). Throwing the id tags away upon receipt in their facility??? To me that just says their main priority is making as much money as they can. Just seems irresponsible. If they take the time to use a numbering system, why not just use names instead of numbers??

I don't mean to speak negatively against Westerlay as they seem to grow excellent quality orchids - I just don't understand their methods.

Thanks for the info, Aceetobe - Very insightful!!

[kavanaru]

well, I would be VERY cautious when interpreting that second quote... it comes from a vendor (no name given - better so, I understand - and therefore no idea of what could be behind that quote). I remember a thread here in OB (sorry, could not find it anymore) whee someone commented that a vendor said that all orchids sold at IKEA, and Home Depots are so cheap, because they are actually "virus infected" waste, and therefore a "serious" orchids fan should never buy them... As I said that time, these plants come from wholesaler... now you have some numbers in this thread: 6Mio plants in one year... do you think the wholesaler are so "stupid" to keep infected plants (even if for only a short period before they are sent to Home Depot & Co.) which could actually ruin their business?

I understand a vendor, would try to keep his/her clients, and therefore (even if not ethic!) say that those selling cheaper products are bad...

I know from the wholesalers in Europe, taht indeed they do not deliver ID tags with their plants, but general one (e.g. Phalaenopsis Hybrid, Paphiopedilum Hybrid, Cambria, etc). However, they do keep a record in their databse of which plants they have... und luckily, if you can find who produced your plant, they are very helpful and provide the ID (maybe, there are indeed exceptions, but I ahve notheard of any yet. And yes, sometimes they take their time for an answer)

I am sure, the wholsaler mentioned above, do keep a record oftheir plants. Just, either the person answering the message had no clue about these records, or just did not wanted to bother checking for it, and sent a standard reply à la "it is like it is and do not bother me too much!" Just think a bit further, a company that size (6 Mio plants per year!) would have a contriol of their business... even if it is only for audit purposes...

Don't want to think of the scenario at such a company during an inspection (for whatever reason):

- Can you prove the origin of your plants?
- No, but they come from Asia
- Do you have Import Documents, Phyto and/or CITES Permits? (I know, for thos eplants tehy normally dfo not need CITES, but an inspector can ask whatever he/she wants!)
- No, we not even care what the plants are, and once they are here, we discard all documents!! You know, our customer don't care about it, and tehy only wnat nice flowers!!

[rogerman]

Originally Posted by Ethan

I don't understand how a nursery can grow/breed/sell/whatever orchids w/out knowing their names. Has anyone ever heard of this???

Yes, I have heard of this. That is quite common here in Thailand. Many/most growers here have a handbook put out by American Orchid Society. It is a very comprehensive handbook with all the registered names of orchids AND their numbers.

Unfortunately, i don't actually have one, but have access to one whenever i go to one particular wholesaler.

As to 6 million plants a year, 1. they won't grow them
2. I doubt that VERY much