What the heck?? I don't understand their response.

[Des]

I am afraid you are looking at the future of our wonderful hobby being trashed for the sake of big business . Can we do anything about it ? YES ,we can refuse to buy these plants unnamed !!

[camille1585]

Originally Posted by Des

I am afraid you are looking at the future of our wonderful hobby being trashed for the sake of big business . Can we do anything about it ? YES ,we can refuse to buy these plants unnamed !!

I disagree. Those big time growers have a place in the orchid world. There are many many people who would never haven't gotten hooked on orchids if it wasn't for those supercheap supermarket noids. Myself included. A supermarket phal is what got me started in the hobby. With so many people getting orchids, a percentage of those inevitably get addicted, which means business for the small orchid growers that sell species and named hybrids. That's how I see it anyways.

I for one will continue to buy supermarket Noids. There are some really pretty ones, and much cheaper (less than 5€ a piece) than at specialist nurseries, which is perfect for those quick orchid fixes.That doesn't mean that I don't like named orchids, I have gotten many (species and names hybrids) from several growers in Europe.

[Ethan]

I think I've struck a nerve, here!

It's obvious that we all have different opinions on NOIDs. There's no denying, as Camille and some others have said, that the NOID/ supermarket/ big box orchids are responsible for many of us getting hooked on orchids. Afterall, that's how I got hooked. If it weren't for these places, many of us would not be here today.

Having said that, I will also admit that 75% of the orchids I have bought have come from my local garden center who gets their orchids from reputable vendors WITH id's. As I became more of an enthusiast and wanted to learn more, I began looking for orchids with id's and became more concerned with supporting the independent breeders/growers.

As several of you have said, it's up to us to support those growers and secure their future. I don't think there's anything wrong with buying a NOID every once in a while...if we all bought nothing, BUT NOIDs, then there would be a problem.

[kavanaru]

Indeed, the "big industry" (just to put a name to those large mass plant prodcution nurseries) has an impact in the business of the traditional nurseries, but mainly in the fact that now for most people it is incomprehensible that a plant (from a traditional nursery) can cost more (for not saying A LOT MORE) than one from the supermarket... at the end, for most people, an orchid is an orchid is an orchid... and why should someone pay 100$ for a plant, which would probably not do well ate his/her place, when she/he can get a "great" plant for a few dollars?

Furthermore, there is the positive impact, of people buying those cheap plants, get interested, get informed, and become clients of the traditional nurseries (as it is the case with most of us here - as already mentionned aboce)

what people seem to forget, is that the target group of both kinds of nurseries, is completelly different! Traditional nuseries will survive because of orchds lovers, who know the value of a good plant, and go for them. This will also be supported by new clients, who became aware of the value of orchids, after getting experience with NOIDs... The old lady, who buy a Phal NOID just to decorate the house, is not the kind of lady that would go to Santa Barbara Orchid Estate Home Page to buy a plant for the kitchen... this has never been so, and will not change in the future either... and yes, even if most people do not like it, Orchids have always been an elitist hobby... now, it is accesible to most people, and this is a positive side of the large mass producers...

What the future will bring? Either it becomes elitist as in the past again, or it becomes a cheaper hobby... nevertheless, this hobby has survived for hundres of years...

the reason why traditional nurseries are out of business are others, and we cannot point at the mass producers for it (at least not always!)

For example, in the 50s & 60s, Cattleyas were the best sellers... almost every orchids enthusiast wanted to have them, the high society ladies, and the wanna be high society ladies, wanted to have them... nowadays, they are not so fashionable anymore... nurseries had to option, change to the more fashionable plant (e.g. Paph., Phal., Dendro) or go out of business... there were many Breeders in the USA in teh 50s & 60s, and now (so far I know) only 3 or 4 real breeders (I am not speaking of those who sell Cattleyas, but those who really breed Cattleyas and new hybrids)... and, we cannot say that the large mass producers are responsible for this (ok, maybe they are responsible that people like Phals much more than Cattleyas)... how often have we read here in OB phrases like "I do not grow those pinky frilly Cattleyas" or "I am not a fan of those large kitsch cattleyas" or anything similar?

and yes, I do buy NOIDs not many, but I do have some of them... and will support that industrie as much as I can... buying NOIDs for birthdays presents has helped me to gain 3 or 4 new "aficionados" to this hobby, which are now enlarging their collections with well IDed plants from traditional nurseries and have at least 2 of them have joined local orchids societies...

[Aceetobe]

Call me crazy, but I'm personally against "identifying" and then putting labels on NoIDs. I'm not against purchasing NoIDs though.

Are you sure its the same plant?

[Jehitch]

Originally Posted by Ethan

I recently purchased 3 phal NOIDs from HD which I submitted a post about a little while ago.

I sent an email with photos to the vendor which is Westerlay Orchids in CA to see if they could identify them for me. It was a quick response, but I'm a bit perplexed here was their response:


"Thank you for your inquiry, and we are glad that you appreciate the quality of our plants. At this time, the company does not identify its orchids by name. A numeric coding system is used, so there is no additional information that can be provided regarding your phals."

I don't understand how a nursery can grow/breed/sell/whatever orchids w/out knowing their names. Has anyone ever heard of this???

An alternative explanation (from a business perspective): They know exactly what the names of their orchids are; they don't want you to know exactly what the names of their orchids are.

Note the grower said, "At this time, the company does not identify its orchids by name," not "At this time, the company does not know the identity of its orchids by name."

Look at this from the producer's point of view. They probably spent years perfecting a hybrid that is easy to grow in large quantities, can take the rough handling of being shipped to a retail outlet, has reasonable shelf life in the store with little knowledgeable care, and will last a fair amount of time after purchase, even with limited care by the owner.

This is very valuable information to a grower, and they don't want their competition to get their hands on it.

And, since we carry a complete tissue culture kit for $250, their competition could now be anyone.

Jim

[Gin]

I think we should try to support the nurseries we can buy from .
Going through a box of stuff I found an old 1986 AOS Bulletin with a lot orchid nursery ads ones that are no longer here . If we do not support the ones we have now soon the grocery stores will be all we will have to buy from . I see nothing wrong with buying Noids. as beginner plants . I have my share but to continue to feather the nest of the wholesale suppliers to grocery stores is sinking our own boat . Just my

[Hedge]

Hi this is a most interesting thread I am a hobbyist in that I grow NOID's because as Ethan says if you have no intention of breeding it doesn't matter too much what they are called. I began with an IKEA orchid when they first started appearing, about three and a half years ago and all my orchids are houseplants (all twenty ) and so I have to like what they look like and they have to fit in the space available and the temperatures. I am just about up to providing extra humidity in the form of pebble trays. If it weren't for cheap orchids in the supermarkets I wouldn't have any. I only have two named orchids, one of which I got cos it has my daughter's name.

My point is that I think that eventually these cheap NOIDs will disappear from the supermarkets the same way cacti have, and Saintipaulias, and the foliage houseplants. And by then hopefully I will be able to afford growers prices. At the moment the cheapest Phals are £3.00 (although deathly boring white and pink ones) - my nearest grower charges £6 for seedlings that may flower in ayear or two and £15 for full grown plants in bloom.

I wonder what the next mass produced houseplant will be?

Regards
Heather aka

[cirillonb]

another point against NoIDs for the hobbyist is that if you grow an incredible plant you can't have it judged for an award.
Nick

[Ethan]

First, I want to say that whether you are for or against buying NOIDs I respect your beleifs. Everyone that has commented either way has some REALLY good points.

Ramón -

Yeah...what you said...that's EXACTLY what I was thinking!! Just kidding... I loved your post...everything you said was genious. People that buy the orchid for the decoration then pitch it aren't going to change - furthermore, It would KILL me to see someone buy a gorgeous, $100, rare, ID'ed orchid and then pitch it when the blooms fall off.

Also, from what I've read, the change from catts to phals has been largely because phals are more adaptable to the average home conditions than are catts. And if you think about it, how many phals do you see in mass production and how many catts do you see in mass production? Not as many catts...I get so excited when I see a pretty catt in ANY store...not so much when I see just another pink or white phal. History shows us that old fashions have a way of coming back in style again.

Jim -

I totally understand what you are saying. If you've worked hard to earn something, you shouldn't have that taken away from you. But, why not just be honest? I would rather say "it's a secret recipe" than say "I don't know what it's called".

Hedge -

I can relate. When I bough these phals, I first stopped by my local garden center - $25 for a 'boring' phal or $15 for a really pretty NOID phal at HD. The choice wasn't hard. AND the ones at HD were in better condition.

And yes, Nick, sadly we can't show our NOID orchid we worked so long and hard to grow - it is very dissappointing. But, we still have orchid board to show them off and here they probably get more respect and attention than at an orchid show. Case in point, look here:
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...tml#post185382

Camille has done a great job growing this NOID for ten years!