Floralia

[estación seca]

I tried to avoid a post like what I'm about to write because understanding the issues involved requires a lot of previous learning, which is far beyond the scope of an online discussion.

It is impossible to eradicate an infections disease from a large population of susceptible organisms. It's not merely practically impossible, it's theoretically impossible. There is no way for any vendor to sell 100% virus free plants. Many people wish with all their hearts it were different, but that's reality.

Most viruses in plant collections are spread by mealybugs and other arthropods. Humans do it too, but various plant viruses have evolved to spread via arthropods, via water splashing and via touch of leaf to leaf.

It is impossible to have a test with a zero false negative rate. That means some plants with infections virus will always be missed with testing. They will continue to infect other plants.

There are no infectious diseases which have been completely eliminated. People say smallpox and polio were eliminated, but they were not: Polio circulates in a few locations; active polio and smallpox virus exists in multiple lab freezers across the world, waiting to be released by accident or intent.

Quarantine has never worked and cannot work for many theoretical and practical reasons. It was invented before infectious diseases were understood. It is emotionally appealing to many but it is ineffective in preventing spread of infectious diseases.

Next, suppose it were possible absolutely to identify clean and infected plants. Consider what a nursery with a high positive test rate would need to do. They would need to test every plant serially over a period of years, ensure there are no bugs in their growing area ever, ensure human gardeners use strict sterile technique and never make mistakes, then destroy all their infected stock, sanitize their entire grow area, and buy recently tested plants to restock. But no nursery would be financially able to do the first and third steps and survive. Meanwhile all those plants are gone forever. Due to CITES regulations it is not possible legally to bring new clones of many currently grown orchids into cultivation. Those plants would disappear from legal cultivation.

The second two steps are in fact impossible because, first, there is no way to sanitize an environment and eliminate 100% of infectious virus. Second, there will always be infected plants that test negative.

So, no, nobody here is suggesting we ignore the issue. We are suggesting the only effective means of control is individuals using careful technique in handling their plants. A plant a vendor sells that tests negative may still have infectious virus.

[isurus79]

Originally Posted by katsucats

Glad to know you think so. I guess exposing a tacit understanding is too much for some to handle. I personally think it's unhinged to be offended when someone states an unspoken truth that a certain rate of virus is "acceptable" to the community, even defended. I guess it's upsetting when things that people take for granted are called into question.

You didn’t expose anything and I’m not offended. What you planned to do and your “logic” made zero sense. Punishing the “orchid community” by knowingly selling virused plants defies any sort of logic and is morally reprehensible. It’s like a small child that didn’t get what they want, so now it’s temper tantrum time. I have two young boys, so I’m keenly familiar with the symptoms of a temper tantrum. Seriously, that’s the type of post you look back on and say to yourself, what the hell was I thinking??

[Jmoney]

I empathasize with your frustration, katsucats, as I have spent over $500-700 on virus testing (and yes, all that means is that I can say my collection has all tested negative over the past 2 years, not that it is "virus free", which may or may not be the case).

I'm not sure there is a double standard here. I do not expect a commercial operation to test all their plants and thus I will accept them *inadvertently* sending me a virused plant. I also do not expect a hobbyist selling plants on ebay to test their plants. I suppose that there is some "penalty" on your end for caring to test your plants, since then you might find out it is diseased and then are left with that unwelcome information.

However what you advertised doing is grossly unethical (as you actually admitted) and perpetuates a wrong that you (and believe it or not, many others here) are offended by. If anyone, commercial or hobbyist, knowingly sent me a virused plant without disclosing that information, I would be absolutely IRATE. You had best believe I would have another list for anyone with the nerve to do that. It may be the customer's responsibility to test and many who grow orchids obviously do not, but to send a virused plant to an unsuspecting customer undermines any credibility you might have had with the whole virus topic to begin with. It is *absolutely* worse than sending a healthy appearing but virused plant in good faith. I don't need to harp on what damage that plant might do on an innocent customer's collection. If you somehow snuck a virused plant back to someone who wronged you, that's revenge. Fine. Personally I'm not opposed to revenge. But sending a diseased plant to someone whose only "crime" is not testing for virus is disgusting and shameful.

That being said, I'm not naive enough to think this doesn't happen in the orchid world, and much worse things are done in the name of business. But I think you are not going to find much support for this practice in the court of public opinion.