Ascocenda leaf spots

[razka3]

Thanks everyone for the replies - It was shipped in crushed rock of some sort. I immediately removed it and put it in an open plastic basket, with maybe an inch of LECA in it. It dries out pretty quickly after the soak.

I think it just came in a really bad condition - only one viable root... so the vendor is going to send me a new one. Everything seems to be alright aside from that... so I think that's what the issue is (no good roots).

Temps 60-75 right now, humidity 40-60%, gets about 2,500 FC now... soaked once or twice a day in nute solution.... gets misted occasionally by accident... two fans going in room, no direct fan blowing on it though, so it has good air flow.

Must be the roots! And yes, the lower leaves are wrinkled and probably will fall off.

Should I sphag and bag it?

[Ocelaris]

do you have ANY roots? I mean, I haven't gotten any vandas so far with what I consider to be "good" roots, plump juicy ones. But even the shriveled/dessicated ones will accept plenty of nutrients, just they're not storing any energy for the plant. Like all orchids, once it's shriveled, it ain't never comin back... well, it never becomes unshriveled...

If you just keep soaking it in a weak nutrient solution once a day, I guarantee you will start to get new plump roots soon. As long as the plant isn't getting any worse, about 1 week to 2 weeks into my daily soak, I get some chunky happy little roots sprouting out of the most shriveled roots you could imagine. I'll have to take some pics. I have 1/4" (~15mm) thick roots popping out of 1/16" (~5mm) dessicated roots. So I KNOW what appears to be dead roots, is in fact viable, just that they aren't storing moisture... your new roots should be fat and plump like little smokey hot dogs...

Misting doesn't do much as the roots really need to soak to absorb. Anything under 5 minutes probably isn't helpful, and anything over an hour is probably over doing it... anywhere in between is fine... IMO

I am having really great success making new roots by soaking in very low nutrient water once a day for half an hour or so... I use RO water and one tsp of Ray's MSU fert (general purpose) and find that works very well. Normal doseage for semi-hydro is 1 and 1/2 tsp per gallon of RO water, but I find that the vandas like a more dilute solution since I only soak them once a day and they get about 60% humidity during the day. I could benefit by soaking in the morning and at night, but let's be realistic, I ain't getting up 45 minutes early to water my plants.

I would not put it in sphag and bag. Vandas do NOT like stale air, they need to dry out between soaks, not be constantly moist. So if you can dunk and forget for a half hour whenever, they will love you for it, and leave them alone the rest!

It sounds like you're doing a good job with it your conditions and up keep. Just keep up the good work and I'm sure it will turn around.

The clay pellets are probably Leca, expanded clay pellets. Kinda like Rice krispies but made out of clay... very porous, but don't allow the vanda roots to get enough moisture. great for alot of other plants though

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[razka3]

Awesome information... Thanks. Made me laugh, the vanda shitting a little smokey! I wish mine would

Oh, now you edited that out... so my post doesn't make any sense! I'll just leave it in for the sake of posterity...

Anyway,,, Yeah it has one root, that's maybe 2" long, the rest are all gone. I do the soak for 30 min, occasionally for 3 hours when I forget I put it in there! I just put the LECA in there for stability and to hold a little moisture, until it dries out maybe 30 min after removing from soak.

There is seriously NO new growth of any sort, roots or leaves. In fact, it's more like decay. Leaves are getting little black spots and the lower ones are getting wrinkly and one already fell off.

I guess I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, and see if anything happens in the future. Maybe the new one will be in better shape, and this one might pull through, then I'll have two!

Thanks again...

[Ocelaris]

You can kind of see the shriveled roots that the plant came with, and the huge new roots that it's sprung up to store the nutrient/energy I've been giving it... In the last 2 pictures, these are baby asc/vandas, and they had horrible roots, basically non-existant, and slowly but surely, they're coming back and doing really well for how small and what under privledged background they come from!

[razka3]

How long have you had the little ones? I see they also have the black spots on their leaves... must be normal. That HUGE root isn't normal though... that looks awesome! I hope mine does that soon....

[Ocelaris]

well, if you are worried about decay, you might get a simple anti-fungal like Physan-20 or RD-20... spray it every once in a while... or if you really see fungus, try some thiomyl which is a systemic fungicide and will definetly clear up any mold/fungus.

how strong is your nute solution? I've just recently discovered that my vandas grow much better with very dilute... I have shriveling and slower root growth when I have higher dissolved solids... If you're soaking 2x a day, you can take the standard "weak daily fertilizer" ratio and cut that in half and be fine.

If you really want to encourage new roots and you have a tough time getting started, maybe some KLN root stimulator? I haven't tried it, but that's apparently the way people go.

If it's more than 2 weeks and you're not seeing positive root development, maybe worry, but it's understandeable if you're putting 2500 fc, it is evaporating a lot of water out of it's leaves, and it has a weak root system, so it can't take in enough water to replenish it. maybe move it into shadier conditions until better roots develop? That at least will slow the transipiration through the leaves and give it a chance to grow some roots. Not quite sphag and bag, but shadier is probably a good way to slow the moisture movement out of the leaves.

[Ocelaris]

I have had the little ones maybe 3 months? That one with spots is a asc. minitarum, and YES it has too much light but it's ok, it obviously is growing well, so I don't worry about the spots. If it were losing leaves (and it used to before it got those roots) I would worry, but since the new leaf is growing well, I'm not worried.

Yes, all of my vandas/asc get spots when they are close to their "sun" a 100w MH bulb... it's about 1000 fc at the bottom of that tank, and ~3000fc at the top... so the big plants get sunburnt a tad on top, and not enough on the bottom. Should be solved by my new tank, much more space.

You can see more of my plants here if you want to see some of my conditions and what they look like:

Ocelaris/Orchids - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Here you can see how some of those plant started... second picture you can see the little smokey getting started. Technically all but 1 is a ascocenda, or some mix of asc/vanda...

[razka3]

Yeah, I use both Physan 20 and KLN...

I think you offered a good solution, I should move it to a shadier location to give it a chance to put out some new roots. That might be key to this situation. I think the nute solution is alright... I give it about half of what I give all the other ones.

I really appreciate the input and the pictures. I'm fairly sure with this new info it might have a chance of survival.

Where did you acquire the larger ones? I haven't seen any that size for sale before. You been growing them for a while?

[Roy]

Having another think about the spotting and looking at the little plants and not having the names of the problem plants, I think there could be a through back to the species Ascocentrum curvifolium there. Its leaves are extensively spotted. Those spots are permanent and are not removable, they're part of the plant. Curvifolium spotting can and does come thru in its progeny. Its possible that there is concern about nothing.
Can you give us the names of the spotted plants.

[Neverend]

Spots look alright to me.