How does temperature affect blue vandas?
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  #21  
Old 09-19-2011, 01:55 AM
Wrebbitrocks Wrebbitrocks is offline
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wow... there seems to be plenty of sanderiana in here as well. i was going to suggest it too since the petals have a resemblance to the roundness of sanderiana unlike the longer narrower petals of a coerulea.
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  #22  
Old 09-19-2011, 01:57 AM
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Dude, you didnt confuse me...I assumed you did research on the cooler vandas and so you already know.
theres no such thing as Vanda karulea...they are inaccurately mispelled
its supposed to be:
Vanda coerulea, also known as the blue orchid was discovered in Sikkim by Joseph Hooker in 1857. white or pale blue flowers dramatically marked with purple, Vanda coerulea orchid always has a paler shade, the tesselation is not as clear and as vivid, and the petals are significantly more twisted, this orchid is native to southeast Asia where it grows at elevations ranging from 2500 to 4000 feet in the foothills of the mighty Hmalayas. Today it is rare in its original habitat, which is also under threat.
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  #23  
Old 10-24-2011, 03:08 PM
Kali Hibiscus Kali Hibiscus is offline
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How does temperature affect blue vandas? Female
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I think I may have the answers to the OP questions.
I have a lot of experience with blue/purple hibiscus and with hibiscus the colors change due to a few things.

One would be temperature/ light. Another would be fertilizer.

Here is a brief on Anthocyanins

Anthocyanins
The Blue, Purple, Pink, Red, Black Spectrum

Anthocyanins are best known as the red pigment in fall leaves. We all know that fall leaves change color in response to weather conditions, and this is the hallmark of anthocyanin pigments. Anthocyanins are plentiful in hibiscus, giving the flowers their many showy bands of color, as well as their tendency to bloom with different colors depending on many different variables.

Anthocyanins are Unstable

Anthocyanins are a much different kind of pigment. They are much less stable than carotenoids. Anthocyanins aren't safely enclosed in plant cells. They are created in the roots, dissolved in the water that makes up plant sap, and move all the way up the plant to where the flowers develop. The least little change in the environment or health of the plant affects the sap, which means it also affects the anthocyanins. This is why blues and purples tend to be so changeable in hibiscus flowers - they are produced by the notoriously unstable anthocyanin pigments.

Anthocyanins & Flavanols Burn Away
Colors Fade Almost Completely

A single anthocyanin pigment can be deep blue or deep red or anything in between, depending on many different variables. One variable we understand to some extent is ph. The levels of alkalinity and acidity in flowers change the color of anthocyanins from the blue ranges to the red ranges. Gardeners use this knowledge to change the colors of hydrangeas between pinks and blues by changing the soil ph. This means we should be able to predictably change the color of a hibiscus flower by changing the plant's ph then, right? Don't we wish! Many of us have tried this, but unfortunately, ph in hibiscus is dictated almost entirely by genes. Within a single flower, there will be pockets of pigment with different ph levels, creating different colors from the same anthocyanin pigment.


Anthocyanins Increase and Turn Red in Response to Cold

Red Anthocyanins Burn Away in Heat
Nature does do some things that alter ph and other anthocyanin characteristics of plants though. Anthocyanins function as a sort of anti-freeze chemical in plant sap. In response to dropping temperatures, plants produce more anthocyanins, and the anthocyanins become redder. For some reason, redder anthocyanins seem to have a more protective anti-freeze effect in plants. This happens in maple leaves, and it's the same mechanism in hibiscus flowers. Dry weather increases this darkening and reddening effect even more, as we see sometimes when mid-summer drought causes tree leaves to develop fall colors early. But it does take a certain amount of sunlight to create anthocyanins, so fall weather, with bright sunny days, less rain, and cold nights, is the perfect weather to maximize anothocyanins, to turn leaves their brightest reds and oranges, and to increase and darken the reds and pinks in hibiscus flowers.


Red Anthocyanins Increase in Cold
'High Voltage' is a good example of this effect. In the hottest summer, the flower is almost pure white, with just a hint of pink blush from anthocyanins. As fall weather cools the nights, anthocyanins increase, and the pink blush starts to deepen and spread. In the coldest weather, the whole flower fills with anthocyanins and turns almost completely pink. In mid-winter here in Southern California where hibiscus keep blooming until Christmas, the December flowers can all be so red and pink that at times we have difficulty identifying them.


Anthocyanins Degrade and Disappear with Heat

Some anthocyanins are very sensitive to heat. Enzymes in plant sap completely destroy several of the anthocyanins in hot weather and bright sunlight, and this creates the fading effect we see in so many hibiscus flowers in summer heat. These are the hibiscus that we recommend keeping in partial shade during the heat of the summer, like 'Sleeping Beauty.' Its anthocyanin pigments are beautiful in the cooler, cloudier times of year, showing a rainbow array of 5 different bands of color, and holding the color well. In summer heat though, the flowers have only 2-3 colors, and in bright sunlight, these colors fade very quickly. But a 'Sleeping Beauty' growing inside a house in a window that gets an hour or two of sun every day will bloom with a full array of colors that will last for 2-3 days. Inside a house, or in partial shade, the anthocyanins are protected from too much heat and sunlight.


Anthocyanins Increase Production and Show a Wider Range of Colors with Maximum Nutrition


Anthocyanin Pigments Develop Best with Optimum Nutrition
Anthocyanins are produced in sap by a reaction between sugar, or brix, and protein. Higher sugar or brix content in the sap and an ability to produce proteins plentifully are both requirements for a plant to produce maximum levels of anthocyanins. Although horticulturists keep looking for tricks to increase brix production in food plants, the most sensible and easiest way is to maximize your plants health in every possible way. Extra good soil, extra good nutrition, extra good care will, over time, increase both sugar and protein production, and you will see the difference in your flower colors.

Some hibiscus are very, very sensitive to this nutritional effect, and will even stop producing flowers all together if the sugar and protein levels in the sap gets too low. Others will produce flowers, but the colors will be pale, or some colors will be missing. The health of the plant really does matter when the colors depend on anthocyanin pigments!


Here are some pics of my Hibiscus in different forms. ( heat also increases spotting ( if plant has spotting)

Winter color ( this is same hibiscus I will be showing you) Heartbreak hotel is the name

PS I barely see this plant in winter color since I live in southern California and my plants are inside.


A tad warmer color


Usual heartbreak hotel color I guess you can say normal temp color ( it looks like this most of the time for me )


Extreme heat color ( this bud was directly under a t5 bulb) This is the first time I have seen it look like this. It was an amazing surprise.



This is E ku'u morning dew in its cool colors ( again this is a rare sight for me. I believe it can get darker if it was outside)


On the left pic of it in a darker color mixed with some spotting that is forming


This is it at its best in warmer weather
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  #24  
Old 10-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Kali Hibiscus Kali Hibiscus is offline
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How does temperature affect blue vandas? Female
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This Hibiscus is really interesting.
This is Bluebook its is a mixture of blues and reds with veining. I was surprised to see it turn a burgundy red once we received some cooler nights in socal.

Normal color


warmer color


Cooler color


It maybe hard to tell in last picture but in real life this was all burgundy red with barely purple on it.

Since my hibiscus are inside they hold color really well. If I had them in a yard I doubt I would get any of these colors.

My friend posted his hibiscus My blue heaven
It normally looks like this




This is his on his fertilizer regime he created

Last edited by Kali Hibiscus; 10-24-2011 at 03:19 PM..
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  #25  
Old 10-24-2011, 04:20 PM
tucker85 tucker85 is offline
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I have a V. Pachara Delight and I've never noticed a difference in color during cooler or warmer weather. Some of my orchids in the yellow to orange range are often darker in color when we have colder weather. On the other hand, it is almost impossible to take an accurate photograph of orchids in the blue violet spectrum. My photos always look more blue than the plant actually is. Pachara Delight is a wonderful vanda. It's usually a dark purple blue and the flowers are held on high upright spikes. It doesn't bloom quite as often as an ascocenda. If you're looking for a bluish vanda that blooms more often, take a look at the Ascocenda Princess Mikasa (Blue) or (Indigo). They can bloom up to four times a year under the right conditions. I would say Pachara Delight is a little more spectacular when in bloom but it blooms about twice a year. They are both excellent vandas but neither will be as blue as you see in photos. Two good things about Pachara Delight, they have perfectly shaped flat flowers and the spikes are tall so the flowers are above the plant.

Princess Mikasa (Indigo)


V. Pachara Delight (this is a younger plant with fewer flowers)


Last edited by tucker85; 10-24-2011 at 04:29 PM..
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  #26  
Old 10-24-2011, 07:45 PM
Paul Mc Paul Mc is offline
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How does temperature affect blue vandas? Male
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WOW - good to know Tucker.

I'm also curious what your experience has been in regards to the Delight in relation to temperature and light needs. Since the Delight seems to have a lot of parentage of (sorry, forgot the cool growing vanda's name now), does it stand to reason that it should be given a bit cooler and lower light such as the heavy parentage would suggest? COERULEA (I think that's how it's spelled - I just remembered it, lol...)

The Baker's say that the coerulea (sp?) should be given between 3000 to 4000 footcandles in cultivation. Has that been your experience as well?
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  #27  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:50 PM
tucker85 tucker85 is offline
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That's an interesting question. I've had Pachara Delight for about a year, including a very hot south Florida summer and it grew well. I do water it almost every morning. Also both the orchids shown here were grown by a local south Florida grower so I guess they're used to the heat. I give it bright light like the rest of my vandas. In fact they are all under pool screen which is only about 28% shade. 4000 footcandles is pretty bright, I really don't know how many footcandles I have here. When I first bought Pachara it was very small and when I put it on my porch it burned some leaves. I put it in a shadier area until it could develop a lager root system and eventually it could handle the bright light without any problems.

Last edited by tucker85; 10-24-2011 at 08:55 PM..
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2011, 08:04 AM
cday2inflorida cday2inflorida is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
I have been to Tucson for the Gem Show(my 6th year = last weeks of Jan and first weeks of Feb=winter in NY) and Tucson have frost at night and then nice spring weather in daytime(as compared to NY springtime)
Vandas dont like frost. You need to take it indoors where theres heat the lowest it can tolerate is 65F
But Tucson in summer can rise to 105F and very dry...you can put the vanda under a tree and water it twice a day...before you go to work and when you arrive home(do not grow it bare root in a basket..put it in a hanging pot with media=large coco chips, lava rocks, charcoal and hydroton=Florida and CA have humidity in their atmosphere so they can grow bare root in a basket, but Tucson is dry cactus heat) But overall it is easy to grow
Good luck!
Vanda coerulea is hard to grow in Florida because of its need for cooler night temps. The couple that I have are selfed and they do a little better with our night temps.
Below is a great photo of how coerulea will take cold nights.
Vanda coerulea in snow | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:08 AM
tucker85 tucker85 is offline
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Wow! Look at the roots on the orchid. Amazing.
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2011, 10:19 AM
Wrebbitrocks Wrebbitrocks is offline
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.....that is perhaps the most amazing sight ever LOL!!! a vanda growing in snow!!! it mustve taken a long time to get it acclimated to such harsh conditions
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