Vanda Roots Browning

[mica28]

Hi, I'm new to Vanda growing so I'd like some help so I don't accidentally kill off my new Vandas.

I bought a Vanda Kultana Gold x Kulatana Scarlet NO.88 about two weeks ago and when I got it, it had some blackish-brown roots and some new green roots. I did not cut away the black roots as it is growing a new flower spike and the roots weren't soft like rotten Phal roots so I left them. You can see picture #3 in here: imgbox - fast, simple image host.

I put it into a clear plastic jug and I fill up the jug once a day with water that's filtered because I read that regular tap water has too many salts which can build up on the roots causing them to burn. I let the Vanda soak for an hour in the filtered water before I empty the water. Every Saturday I fill the jug with this seaweed extract (one cap full) and fertilizer (a 20-20-20 mix diluted in filtered water) and let it soak for an hour and then pour out the fertilizer water.

Last week I noticed it's roots were dry so I rinsed and added a few large LECA (clay) pebbles in the basket. Today when I checked it, the whole initial part of the big new root was turning brown and shriveled up! See picture in above link.

What is causing this? The roots in the water as you can see in pic #2 are doing ok, but the root at the surface is turning brown. Is it the LECA pebbles? Or is it the fact that that's where the edge of the water usually is? So maybe salts build up there? Or is it because the fertilizer is too strong? But if so, why aren't the roots inside burning too?

I also got a Vascostylis Sasicha "Blue" X Pine River "Blue" about a month and a half ago. This was my 1st Vanda but it has been more robust than the Kultana. I'm so shocked at how sensitive the Kultana is. For one month I left it hanging and followed the same water and fertilization scheduling I mentioned above (during which it would be in a pot). I tried potting it in a clear jug like the Kultana but the roots started turning brown so I just leave it hanging. It hasn't done anything but continue to grow leaves. How do I get it to grow new roots?

[Ray]

No pictures (you need more posts, first), but it looks like that :marine phytoplankton product is a fertilizer all by itself.

How much are you diluting the 20-20-20?

In my experience, vandas like it very warm and wet, with lots of humidity and air around the roots.

If you want more roots, look up C & C Orchids on Facebook (Hamilton ON) and get some KelpMax.

[mica28]

I just joined today because I just discovered this forum. It's got so much information.

On the label it states "this is not a fertilizer" and explains that the product is a "soil enhancer" that's why I'd been using it with the fertilizer.

I follow the instructions on the package and use 1 gallon of filtered water and one small scoop of Miracle Gro 20-20-20. Then I add 4 of the same scoop size of the marine phytoplankton product because that says to use 1 to 20 ratio.

Thanks for the idea! I thought the marine phytoplankton stuff was equivalent to kelp-max. If not, could you maybe explain to me what's the difference?

[Ray]

Originally Posted by mica28

I follow the instructions on the package and use 1 gallon of filtered water and one small scoop of Miracle Gro 20-20-20. Then I add 4 of the same scoop size of the marine phytoplankton product because that says to use 1 to 20 ratio.

What is the volume of "one small scoop"?

Thanks for the idea! I thought the marine phytoplankton stuff was equivalent to kelp-max. If not, could you maybe explain to me what's the difference?

As I have absolutely no true contents to read (I hate when companies are like that), I cannot compare them, but I guarantee you'll not find a better growth/root growth stimulant than KelpMax.

[mica28]

Originally Posted by Ray

What is the volume of "one small scoop"?

According to several websites I looked at the small scoop's volume is equivalent to 1/2 teaspoon.

[Ray]

One-half teaspoon of that is about 125 ppm nitrogen - it bad for a pour-through treatment, but maybe a lot for a long soak.

However, I’m not sure that’s the whole issue. Tell us about your water quality and what kind of filters you use.

[mica28]

Originally Posted by Ray

Tell us about your water quality and what kind of filters you use.

I am using tap water filtered through a Brita water filter (jug). I pour the water from the jug into a larger bucket and add the 2 items (fertilizer + seaweed) and mix it before giving it to the plants. Could it be that the bucket has residue in it? I rinse it with plain tap water. But is that sufficient?

Oh I just "previewed" with the link and I have made enough posts so here's a gallery that has some images of the roots in it: imgbox - fast, simple image host. I hope this helps because I checked and that whole root is starting to shrivel up! :

---------- Post added at 10:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Ray

If you want more roots, look up C & C Orchids on Facebook (Hamilton ON) and get some KelpMax.

I'm a bit far from Hamilton. Just wondering if this product from Canadian Tire is similar and can be used in place of kelp max? I kinda need it fast and this would be more accessible for me.

Also, I just wanted to thank you for your help so far. No one else has responded so I really appreciate that you took the time to help a newbie here!

[KingKong]

hey mica, you are fertilizing too much.

You are probably overdoing it with the soaking too.

You want the roots to dry out completely by the evening.

If that were my plant I would be giving it 10-15ml per day. This sits in the bottom of the vase and the plant has drunk it by the end of the day and the roots are bone dry by the evening. You might have to experiment with the amount to achieve this drying.

The people that soak their roots thoroughly only do so once a week - the soak provides 7 days worth of water for the plants. So either do that or feed a little bit every day that the plant drinks and the roots dry out.

Don''t add leca as that will prevent the roots drying out.

Dry roots are better than rotting roots.

But the brown spots are salt buildups mainly. There is one brown spot on the third picture which looks suspicious, you say this is where the water line is - probably caused by too much fertilizer.

Your seaweed extract is labeled as a soil enhancer. You are not using any soil!
So if you ask me most likely completely the wrong product that has been designed to work in conjunction with soil.
Try feeding no nutrients at all for a month and see what difference it makes. The plant will not starve by not getting any nutrients for a month. In fact it has way too much stored in its roots already by the looks of it.

It will be hard to judge how much you should be feeding but I go by what the minimum says on the bottle and I divide that by 10.

So if it says 10ml/10l I would only feed 1ml/10l which is verging on practically nothing.

The more you water (ie every day vs once a week the less you need to add feed as otherwise it builds up too much)

[mica28]

Thanks so much for all the help King Kong! When I got my first Vanda, a Vascostylis, I was watering it once a week with all the other plants. Then I got the Vanda Kultana and read all these posts online and watched some videos and they were suggesting watering everyday as Vandas are "heavy feeders." Some said to soak it for a while, others said to keep the roots constantly moist, and others said to feed once a week. I really wanted to care for it well because the Kultana has a spike that might bloom in the next few days. Heck, even the nursery I bought it from told me to soak the plant for 40 mins everyday! I was so confused so I combined ALL methods and you're right, I have definitely been over feeding/watering.

I'll cut back on the fertilizer and marine phytoplankton slowly. My other plants are used to the 1 teaspoon of fertilizer and 4 teaspoons of the marine phytoplankton diluted in 1 gallon of water once a week. I don't want to shock them right now as my Phals are all in bloom and the Dens and Onci are growing new roots. The last time I shocked a Phal it produced a mutated flower that scares me every time I see it!

[Ray]

Originally Posted by mica28

I'm a bit far from Hamilton. Just wondering if this product from Canadian Tire is similar and can be used in place of kelp max? I kinda need it fast and this would be more accessible for me.

I cannot speak for that specific product first hand, but it is not the same by any stretch of the imagination.