Out for delivery!

[u bada]

Really fantastic plants! The kurokongou is spectacular!

I got my plants yesterday myself. I love em. yeah the process ordering with her is a bit painstaking... let me tell you as soon as I got last list I went through the list as fast as I could and I was working too, got back to her in an hour after it was out, literally an hour... and next day she got back to me that I lost out in the first 3 I really wanted. So nutso!!!

In general though I find orchid growers/vendors excruciatingly annoying in terms of communication... NWO took 3 months to get back to me and that was after sending 2 emails after the first to follow up. Jason and crew only reply every 3 emails for me. At least both of them have clear pictures and descriptions of their offerings, but Satomi does post pics of the actual plants which sets her apart. She also replies to my emails every 2-3 emails.

I'm a bit spoiled as are the rest of CA in that I can see many vendors in person at shows and see the actual plants. I saw Satomi at a show earlier in month spent $$$ and still wanting more a couple weeks later with her list. talk about hooked! The plants I got this time didn't have pics to go with but fortunately they all turn out well. I've actually gotten small plants from her before which is a bummer but otherwise not something you can just get and I fall for even little runts so... I got a houmeiden from her at the show that started dropping leaves when I got home, when I emailed her to ask her what to do she offered to replace and it was very much appreciated. But I"m starting out and probably maxed out. Best to get a collection going full throttle (in first year) and see how they do at this point. LOL

Anyway, at end of day if you can see vendors in person they are many times warm, generous in sharing information, and great in seeing actual plants.

I've been eyeing Al's greenhouse neo offerings. You're lucky, Patty, you can just head over there. A friend of mine is a friend of Al's so hoping that would get me on the in's with him eventually when I order from him.

Side note for you, how much light are you giving your Bean's? All the variegated ones are hogging the high light spots so I'm debating whether to try them low light or try to keep them medium.

[Leafmite]

Congratulations on your new orchids! It is always fun to get new plants in the mail.

[Pattywack]

Originally Posted by u bada

Really fantastic plants! The kurokongou is spectacular!

I got my plants yesterday myself. I love em. yeah the process ordering with her is a bit painstaking... let me tell you as soon as I got last list I went through the list as fast as I could and I was working too, got back to her in an hour after it was out, literally an hour... and next day she got back to me that I lost out in the first 3 I really wanted. So nutso!!!

In general though I find orchid growers/vendors excruciatingly annoying in terms of communication... NWO took 3 months to get back to me and that was after sending 2 emails after the first to follow up. Jason and crew only reply every 3 emails for me. At least both of them have clear pictures and descriptions of their offerings, but Satomi does post pics of the actual plants which sets her apart. She also replies to my emails every 2-3 emails.

I'm a bit spoiled as are the rest of CA in that I can see many vendors in person at shows and see the actual plants. I saw Satomi at a show earlier in month spent $$$ and still wanting more a couple weeks later with her list. talk about hooked! The plants I got this time didn't have pics to go with but fortunately they all turn out well. I've actually gotten small plants from her before which is a bummer but otherwise not something you can just get and I fall for even little runts so... I got a houmeiden from her at the show that started dropping leaves when I got home, when I emailed her to ask her what to do she offered to replace and it was very much appreciated. But I"m starting out and probably maxed out. Best to get a collection going full throttle (in first year) and see how they do at this point. LOL

Anyway, at end of day if you can see vendors in person they are many times warm, generous in sharing information, and great in seeing actual plants.

I've been eyeing Al's greenhouse neo offerings. You're lucky, Patty, you can just head over there. A friend of mine is a friend of Al's so hoping that would get me on the in's with him eventually when I order from him.

Side note for you, how much light are you giving your Bean's? All the variegated ones are hogging the high light spots so I'm debating whether to try them low light or try to keep them medium.

U bada thank you! The Kurokongou is pretty amazing, Satomi had two of them in her list. I’m happy with all of these and love having nice clumps of any of them. I only have a few plants that are single growth plants and they are finally putting out new fans.

I appreciate being able to see the plant I am purchasing and Satomi will send you a picture if you ask her but you really need to tell her you are interested in the plant so that she doesn’t sell it before you see the picture. I always zip through her email listings and I’m sure I’ve missed out on some I would have liked to purchase but it’s such a fast grab you have to be quick! I’m not always able to check them out until it’s too late. I feel like her prices are great in her email list!

You need to post pictures of your new Neos. I would love to meet Satomi and I hope to be able to catch her at the next show in Philadelphia in the spring. I’ve not purchased from NWO in a long time, too difficult to communicate with Kristen.

I find it is hard to find many more bean leaf plants and I won’t even go there with a variegated beans, just too expensive.

Al’s is amazing to visit and he is such a quirky guy, gawd he loves his Neos!!! The problem with going to Al’s is he has no beans that I don’t already have and he says he isn’t buying any more Neos. He has loads more Neos than he has listed on his website, not sure why he hasn’t listed them all. He also has the black plastic Neo pots though not on his website!? I always pickup more pots when I visit him. Al’s Neos are big, multiple growth plants and very healthy. Sometimes he sells divisions after he has remossed them. When his plants are in bloom it’s quite a sight!

As for my lights? My Neos are all under t5 ho lights. Some of the variegated plants (not many) are set on top of other pots to raise them closer to the bulb. Lights are on for 14 hours. Nothing special and they are doing well. I have a Gojo fukurin that I purchased in November flowering now. It has nice variegation, it’s a small plant with three growths. I purchased it from Satomi, it has small flowers that are pretty cute.

Now let’s see those new plants!!! Come on, don’t be shy

---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Leafmite

Congratulations on your new orchids! It is always fun to get new plants in the mail.

Leafmite, it’s a great feeling lol! Like Christmas, the anticipation while opening the box is a natural high.

It is also fun to receive a new plant stand in the mail! Hahaha, not outta space now, I’ve got oddles of space to play with. Admittedly the new bakers rack is “supposed” to be for my cactus and succulents that I’ll need to bring inside for winter.

Hopeless, we’re all hopeless.

[Shoreguy]

Pattywack,

Here's my Gojo Fukurin (or Tenkei Fukurin) depending on your color perception. I recently changed its label because I felt it had mutated to become sufficiently yellow. It really is subjective.

I've had it for over 30 years and have occasionally removed single growth divisions.

[Pattywack]

Shoreguy, ummm WOW that is gorgeous! 30 years is a looong time, it sure has grown well for you. My little one has some growing to do. I’ll post a picture of it’s flowers, they fully opened this morning. I like the variegation on this plant.

[Shoreguy]

Pattywack,

Yours looks good.

The reason why this variety doesn't get much respect (ie it's dirt cheap) is that it is a prolific grower. If it were a slow grower with the same appearance, it would be wildly popular and pricey. Everybody would want it and pay dearly for the few available.

Think Kinbotan. I know I am going to get in trouble for this (being highly opinionated, I always do) but the only thing Kinbotan has going for it is ruby root tips and temporarily variegated new leaves. (Ruby root tips are available much more cheaply). But Kinbotan is evidentially not that vigorous and therefore very costly due to unavailability.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Think Kinbotan. I know I am going to get in trouble for this (being highly opinionated, I always do) but the only thing Kinbotan has going for it is ruby root tips and temporarily variegated new leaves. (Ruby root tips are available much more cheaply). But Kinbotan is evidentially not that vigorous and therefore very costly due to unavailability.

Not to contradict your personal tastes, since not everyone has the same preferences in Neo characteristics, but the costliness of Kinbotan actually has little to do with availability or vigor at all. In fact, I would hardly call Kinbotan rare, and it is not really a slow or difficult variety to grow.

Kinbotan is expensive because the demand for the variety is extremely high. The demand for Kinbotan is so high in Korea and Japan that even though there are a lot of Kinbotans out there, there are still people willing to pay large sums of money on each specimen. Among collectors in Japan and Korea, Kinbotan is undeniably the single most popular Neo variety in existence. The majority of serious growers there own up to 10 individual specimens of the variety, and quite a few growers own several dozen, with no intent to stop buying more.

The reason the variety is so popular among serious neo collectors is of course for its appearance, but it is also because of its tendency to be unstable. Even though Kinbotan is strictly only propagable by division, not every division made from Kinbotan is of the same quality or characteristics and specimens can easily let out higher or lower quality growths.

Some specimens have bright yellow variegation, others have greener variegation. Some have lots of sumi, some don't. Some produce large amounts of anthocyanin pigmentation, some don't, Some have darker ruby roots, some have muddier roots. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some are more prone to shifting or producing further mutations and others tend to be more stable across its growths. It's also not uncommon at all for Kinbotans to revert back to Kokubotan.

Beyond that, Kinbotan has the ability to spontaneously mutate into several other varieties including Kinbotan-shima, Kinbotan-Kishima, Botan-nishiki, Kinshaboku, Gessho, Gesshokan, Kokubotan-Shima etc.

The range of possible changes in Kinbotan seems endless and serious collectors in Japan and Korea enjoy growing Kinbotan for this ability to shift and change. However, to increase their chances of seeing these changes during their lifetimes, many growers buy multiples of the variety.

Because of all of this variability though, even though the price of the variety as a whole is pretty high, the price range is also pretty wide. You'll find lower quality Kinbotan specimens as low as $400 for one growth, to $3000 for a single exceptional quality growth, and some of the named mutations can fetch $5000 to $10,000 for a single growth.

Now, of course though, I'm not trying to contradict the original intent of your argument. There are indeed plenty of other varieties that are expensive simply because of their rarity.

[Pattywack]

Hakumin your knowledge of these plants is just amazing. I understood what Shoreguy was saying yet your explanation as to the rarity of Kinbotan really clarifies the issue. The plant is beautiful. I think I will be content with my little Gojo.

Thank you for the lesson, seriously.

[Shoreguy]

Hakumin,

You and every ardent follower of this section of the Board knows that I would never question the authority of your postings and it’s possible I would never have been drawn to the Board had it not been for you.

However, I can think of another variety that in many ways mimics most everything you said about Kinbotan except its extreme popularity and associated costs, and that of course is Nishidemiyako, a low cost variety.

Maybe fewer named mutations but is that enough to justify the disparity between how they are judged? Let’s face it, $5,000 or so is serious money for a single growth.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Maybe fewer named mutations but is that enough to justify the disparity between how they are judged?

Among the collectors in Japan and Korea, who drive the price of Neos, yes, it is.

In all seriousness though, that's where the appearance of the variety also comes into play. A well grown good quality kinbotan is considered that much more beautiful and desirable than Nishidemiyako or it's mutations. Also, the visible characteristics of a good well grown nishidemiyako is similar at first glance to dozens of other neo varieties. The visible charactersitics of a good well grown Kinbotan is not found in any other variety.

Beyond that there could be some hype in play too. Don't forget that any collector's market is driven by forces that can't always be explained by logic.

In any case, regardless of what the reason for the cost is, the indisputable fact is that Kinbotan is simply not rare, and isn't an exceptionally slow grower.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Let’s face it, $5,000 or so is serious money for a single growth.

Multiply that by 6 or 7 or even 10, and that's the price range you get for certain truly rare and coveted varieties—the kind of varieties that are hard to find even if you had endless amounts of money.