NF 'Koto' x 'Shu-Ten-Nou' (& reciprocal)

[ramp]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

I agree with you, up to a point.
The primary problem is, that reputable growers (nurseries & resellers) have been selling these as pure Neofinetia falcata for the last 18 months or more.
The secondary problem is, that we don't know what 'Koto' really is. As a hobby hybridizer, that makes the plant useless to me. I won't use a plant for breeding, unless I am 100% certain of the parentage.

I understand what you are saying but unfortunately I haven"t found the parentage for the pink Koto. I most probably originates from a Neofinetia falcata x Ascocentrum ampullaceum cross, back crossed with Neofinetia. I can't even find the country of origin for it. Sorry.
One thing is sure however, it is no a pure Neofinetia but Shutenno , Benisuzume and several other pink ones are.

[RobinDavis]

I did look at the Taiwanese nursery, Formosa Orchids and unfortunately the Neof. falcata x sib ['Shutenno' (朱天王) x 'Koto' (紫紅姬)] is the only flask they offer that I am remotely interested in. I desire to find a N. falcata species cross. I agree that 'Koto' is probably an intergeneric hybrid.

[ramp]

Originally Posted by RobinDavis

I did look at the Taiwanese nursery, Formosa Orchids and unfortunately the Neof. falcata x sib ['Shutenno' (朱天王) x 'Koto' (紫紅姬)] is the only flask they offer that I am remotely interested in. I desire to find a N. falcata species cross. I agree that 'Koto' is probably an intergeneric hybrid.

Contact; Peter T. Lin (Diamond Orchids) or Seed Engei or Orchids Limited (OrchidWeb.com) or or New World Orchids if you are in the US.

[NYCorchidman]

So, if you are not sure of the parentage, how can you say then you are sure that this Koto is not a species?

It is an assumption, is it not?

[ramp]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

So, if you are not sure of the parentage, how can you say then you are sure that this Koto is not a species?

It is an assumption, is it not?

No, I'm not assuming There's no purple pure Neofinetia. Doing further research on the subject. What I already found out more is that the pink-purple "Koto" most likely originates from Korea so Hope to find out more in that direction. But these tings take time as it isn't easy to find parentage on the newer created "varieties".

[Fairorchids]

Originally Posted by NYCorchidman

So, if you are not sure of the parentage, how can you say then you are sure that this Koto is not a species?

It is an assumption, is it not?

The 'Koto' 'variety' is essentially unknown and unrecognized. If a true NF with that color had been found, it should have been shown, judged and written up in all the publications.

The link that appears earlier in this thread, shows a photo of a plant that I will state 'is clearly not a true NF'. It is probably 75% NF or perhaps 62.5% or 87.5% NF, but leaf shape is typical of the well known NF hybrids (mostly with Rhy coelestis, some with various Ascocentrum).

The new flower photos that I have seen shown for the 'Koto' x S-T-N plants, are highly suspect in that they all have saturated colors. This does not happen in a true NF.

All of this raises so many questions, that these plants should be rejected as true NFs.

To change this conclusion, it is up to the breeder (or the US owner of 'Koto') to prove that the plant is a true NF. The AOS does evaluate plants that are questionable, though that is still only an evaluation. To be absolutely certain, a DNA analysis should be done.

[ramp]

I totally agree with you Kim.
This "Koto" is not recognized as a true Neo in Japan and not registered.
As I stated before there are NO pure purple or yellow Neofinetias with the exception of Zuiun (Creme-yellow).
Even looking at the shape and size of the purple flowered Koto, you can certainly see that this is a hybrid.
However on a side note, Shutenno can be propagated by seed and most of it's offspring will show the same flower color and shape. This is a pure Neofinetia.