Old record/books
Login
User Name
Password   


Registration is FREE. Click to become a member of OrchidBoard community
(You're NOT logged in)

menu menu

Sponsor
Donate Now
and become
Forum Supporter.

Old record/books
Many perks!
<...more...>


Sponsor
 

Google


Fauna Top Sites
Register Old record/books Members Old record/books Old record/books Today's PostsOld record/books Old record/books Old record/books
LOG IN/REGISTER TO CLOSE THIS ADVERTISEMENT
Go Back   Orchid Board - Most Complete Orchid Forum on the web ! > >
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-03-2013, 10:46 PM
kentaki kentaki is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 119
Old record/books
Default Old record/books

I am going to translate a few to several very old documents on Neofinetia falcata and Fkiran.

One myth that is repeatedly told is that only people from the Samurai class were allowed to grow Fkiran, the Samurai coveted these very much like lunatic, etc. I have even read only Samurai people could grow plain Neofinetia falcata species. Not. I have been somewhat fascinated by how Americans and Europeans are fascinated by this little story. I would like to refute the notion.

Exhibit 1.
Shohacnimono Shkai No Maki (List of various potted plants)
http://fuuran.otodo.net/ninjya/image.jpg

Supposedly, this is the oldest record on Fkiran, and published in 1855 (I have just read "For over 400 years, Japanese have grown fuu ran"). Admittedly, not all of them were Fkiran. There were Den. moniliforme, Rohdea japonica, etc. However, the most people (about 100 or so) were merchants, and only 17 or so were probably from upper class like Samurai (Look for the character "氏").

Exhibit 2.
Fran Go Shu (Five Fkiran cultivars)
É|EԂ̔

The author is Ry Shiken, who was a famous Ukiyoe Printer:
柳枝軒 - Wikipedia

And since he was not from the Samurai class, this itself is a proof that non-Samurai people were growing Fkiran. This was also published in 1855.

I cannot read the whole text because of archaic fonts, but here's translation of some part:

"These days many people like Neofinetia. I have had a few already, but I acquired another one named 'Tama Sudare' ('Beaded Hanging Screen'). As I looked, its appearance was not gentle like Tama Sudare. Leaves were very interesting and bent like big waves. Hence, I would have liked to name this ' Tsunami' ('Big Tsunami') but I was afraid some people may not like the name. So I named this ' Nami ('Big Wave') and I cherish this very much."

More to come, but this is it for now.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 3 Likes
Likes Call_Me_Bob, Andrew, lithopgirl liked this post
  #2  
Old 12-03-2013, 11:07 PM
Leafmite's Avatar
Leafmite Leafmite is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Zone: 5b
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,929
Old record/books
Default

I just love your posts!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-03-2013, 11:24 PM
Call_Me_Bob Call_Me_Bob is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Zone: 6a
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 28
Posts: 6,061
Old record/books Male
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentaki View Post
"These days many people like Neofinetia. I have had a few already, but I acquired another one named 'Tama Sudare' ('Beaded Hanging Screen'). As I looked, its appearance was not gentle like Tama Sudare. Leaves were very interesting and bent like big waves. Hence, I would have liked to name this ' Tsunami' ('Big Tsunami') but I was afraid some people may not like the name. So I named this ' Nami ('Big Wave') and I cherish this very much."

More to come, but this is it for now.
Would that have anything to do with how Oonamiseikai got it's name?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-03-2013, 11:26 PM
rangiku rangiku is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Zone: 6a
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 886
Old record/books Female
Default

Thanks for posting this, Ken. I get a 403 error for the first link so can't see it. Others work fine.
Reply With Quote
Post Thanks / Like - 1 Likes
Likes Call_Me_Bob liked this post
  #5  
Old 12-04-2013, 08:16 AM
dries666 dries666 is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 82
Old record/books
Default

Maybe u shouldn't take the myth too literally? It is quite normal for some people to gain interest in certain beautiful plants in nature, even way back then, so it's not so abnormal for regular working class people to find and enjoy these neo's as well. But as history repeatedly shows us, the "rich and powerful" seem to have the habbit of trying to collect the most expensive, rarest things there are. So the myth might be true in the way that certain rich and noble people would do almost anything to find more rare and therefore more expensive varieties so they would have something to show to the other wealthy people that they have but the others don't... and they would probably have tried to plant them in the most aesthetic way possible, aka the moss ball with the beautifully glaced pots, or with even a gilded cage above it (something that ordinary people just don't have the money or interest for) showing their superior wealth that is . I don't know how this went down the history of Japan, but I have heard enough from world history to understand that this "showing off that u are rich and wealthy'' is almost universal.

On another point; the variegation of plants in nature is something that rarely happens. It relies on the right mutation in the right plant cells and then if u get a variegated plant u almost automatically get a plant that grows slower than other by the lower percentage of chlorofyl containing cells in the plant. These plants may be easily outgrown by other more vigorously growing plants And the variegation makes them more noticable, aka more of a target for certain types of plant eating animals/bugs,... ('special plant types' collecting people XD...)
But since the japanese seem to have a very driven spirit into perfecting their hobbies (not meant bad in any way!), it's not that unusual that they tried to grow these beautifully variegated plants to their full extent. But that might be the reason that there aren't as many variegated native american/european orchids because they are rare to find and even then the right motivated person needs to find them. also these tend to be terrestial orchids, which are a bit more of a hassle than epifytic orchids which can grow on almost anything. (referring to another thread of u where u ask why there aren't as many native variegated american orchids where as japan has so many....)

so anyway... to me this is also a possibility and I just wanted to point this possibility out to the rest, not in any way to convince anyone because I could be terribly wrong in this

friendly greetings,
Dries
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-04-2013, 12:02 PM
kentaki kentaki is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 119
Old record/books
Default

Try this link instead:

xMwn(]ˎ)

And it probably does not have directly something to do with Oonamiseikai because the oldest cultivar remaining is supposedly 'Fkiden' (1860), which is 5 years later than this publication. This is also mentioned in the web page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dries666 View Post
So the myth might be true in the way that certain rich and noble people
This is sorta another myth although I have previously used the notion. I have somewhat already proven most collectors of these orchids were not considered "noble" at that time because they were merchants. Besides, the term Fkiran, is likely a later invention in Meiji era (1868), after the country opened its door.

And you do not have to even think who would "sell" products in general. CLASSIC plants at that time were grown in part as an investment. I am sure many of you are familiar with the tulip mania, and a similar phenomenon occurred in Japan at least a few times during Edo era. The government even prohibited dealings of expensive plants such as Ardisia and Rohdea. Under these circumstances, it is a little bit nave to believe that only Samurai people grew these.

The "Samurai" myth partly (largely?) came from a legend (or whatever you call) that the 11th Shgun Ienari (徳川家斉) was into Neofinetia. His rein was from 1787 to 1837, and merely 14 years after his death in 1841, ordinary people were growing Fkiran.

I think the Samurai myth should be destroyed because I do not think it is healthy. It almost seems like a fetish to me. I wonder why only Fkiran is popular among these type of orchids but not Den. moniliforme, Cym. goeringii, kanran, sinese, ensifolium, faberi, etc. Yes, a little story and history might make a plant species interesting, but frankly, it is exaggerated. To me, this is like a story on how Cattleya labiata was discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dries666 View Post
also these tend to be terrestial orchids, which are a bit more of a hassle than epifytic orchids which can grow on almost anything. (referring to another thread of u where u ask why there aren't as many native variegated american orchids where as japan has so many....)
It does not have to be about orchids or even variegation. There are various selections of deciduous trees with unique leaf color out of Europe. I simply think that people are not really interested, or have never thought about this. Simple. Sure, the process to select variegated clones out of wild or cultivated population takes time, but it needs to start somewhere.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-04-2013, 12:20 PM
rangiku rangiku is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2010
Zone: 6a
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 886
Old record/books Female
Default

Thanks for that link, Ken. I really need to go back to learning Japanese...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-04-2013, 02:31 PM
AnonYMouse AnonYMouse is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2012
Zone: 9b
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,318
Default

I think we are romanticizing the Neo, as an (incorrect) extension of the Bushido, or something.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-04-2013, 09:29 PM
kentaki kentaki is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 119
Old record/books
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonYMouse View Post
I think we are romanticizing the Neo, as an (incorrect) extension of the Bushido, or something.
Romanticizing is not a bad thing. But in this case, it looks similar to Ninja fascination. They are just old spies.

I am just introducing this one because the author may be Ry Shiken.

Exhibit 3.
風蘭譜/Fran Fu (Neofinetia Guidebook)
É|EԂ̔
Author: Unknown
Year Published: Unknown

The site does not go into details of this manual. But supposedly it lists 25 cultivars. From left to right:
新孔雀/Shin Kujaku ('New Peacock'), 玉青/Gyoku Sei? ('Jade Blue' or 'Jade 'Green'), 雪白/Setu Haku, Seppaku, Yukishiro, or Yukijiro? ('Snow White') and 大鵬/Tai H ('Dapeng'):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_(mythology)

Exhibit 4.
天下泰平風蘭七福神/Tenka Taihei Fran Shichifukujin
(Neofinetia Seven Lucky Gods of World Peace')
Author: 桃花園/Tkaen
Year Published: 1856?

The author likened Fkiran cultivars to Seven Lucky Gods. The author drew and wrote 讃/san (praise) for each cultivar. Poems and text are little too much for me to translate now.

Exhibit 5.
和漢三才図会/Wakan Sansai Zue
Image: ????????????
On Wakan Sansai Zue
Wakan Sansai Zue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Author: 寺島良安/Terashima Ryan
Year Published: 1712

I did ok with Chinese classic literature in high school, but this is a bit too much. Here's the version that is easier for me to read:

FLOS,

三才図会に云ふ、風蘭は土あらずして生く。小さき籃(かご)に貯へて樹の上に掛く。人、仙草と称す。細なる 花微かに香し。五雑組に云ふ、風蘭は根土に着かずして木石の上に叢り蟠(またが)り、取りて之れを(のき) の際に懸く。時に風の為に吹かるときは愈々茂盛す。其の葉花家蘭と全く異なること無し。按ずるに、風蘭は深 山に之れ有り(かや)み)等の幹(えだ)の間に多く之れ有り。葉の形万年青に似て細く小さく、其の長さ二、 三寸、六月に一茎を抽(ぬ)き小白花を開く。末(すえ)曲り微かに香し。

"According to Sancai Tuhui (a Chinese encyclopedia), Fran grows w/o soil. It is placed in a small basket and then on a tree. People call this Sen S (Celestial Herb/Weed). Small flowers have a light fragrance. According to 五雑組 (another Chinese encyclopedia), roots of Fran never touch soil and mount on trees and rock. People hang this from eaves after collection (from wild). It grows well when breezy. There is no difference between leaves and flowers of this and those of ordinary orchids.

I contemplate that the habitat of Fran is deep in mountains, and many are found on branches of Torreya nucifera, Abies firma, and such. Leaves look like Rohdea japonica, but small and narrow. The length of leaves are 2~3 inches. An inflorescence will emerge in June, and bear small white flowers. The tip of flower is bent, and has a weak fragrance."

I am not sure about the Chinese references, but at that time, the author had to compare with Chinese reference to be legitimate.

和漢三才図会 was published in 1712, and was considerable as a very reliable reference on Kanp.

Exhibit 6:
絵本野山草/Ehon No Yamagusa
http://archive.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kosh...0001_p0027.jpg
Author: 橘保国/Tachibana Yasukuni
Year Published: 1755

This is from the first volume of the work. The author (a Ukiyoe artist) described Fran along with several other orchids, including Den. moniliforme and Phalaenopsis japonica.

風蘭 おさ蘭 花,五六月より八月まで 葉、柳菜にして、ほそくあつし。つや有。ちいさし。花のいろ白く、 小りん。蘭花のごとし。

"Fran and Eria reptans. Flowers bloom May and June to August. Leaves are narrow and thick. Flower color is white and flowers are small. They look like (Cymbidium?) orchids."

I am done with Japanese publication for now.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
class, fukiran, people, read, samurai, record/books


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:30 AM.

© 2007 OrchidBoard.com
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.37 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Clubs vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.