Re-working on Fûkiran names

[kentaki]

I freely admit that I am not an expert on Fûkiran. But I was born and grew up in Japan. I have been torturing orchids for over three decades. I have degrees in horticulture and plant related areas.

Frankly, some of the translated names are bizarre. A part of reason is that the naming system (if there is one) is substantially different from how other orchids are named. After all, these are 東洋蘭 Tôyô Ran, and thus more of "classic" plants.

Another reason is that whoever attempted to translate does not have enough knowledge in both English and Japanese. It is a complex situation, and won't be resolved over night. It is my attempt to provide correct information on names. Comments and criticism welcomed.

I will start with ones on Fukiran Society of America (this is a bit odd spelling to me) :
Fukiran Names - Fukiran Society of America

1. Amanogawa - River of Heaven

How could they miss this one? This is a great example of direct translation. Amanogawa is "Milky Way."
天�� - Wikipedia

2. Aojiku - Green Axis

This one is more or less right. It is just "axis" sound a bit too anatomical to me. Yes, it means shoot axis, but to me, jiku is more like "stem."

3. Asahiden - Rising Sun Lord

This is another very wrong one. If 朝日殿 is pronounced "Asahitono" or "Asahidono," it is more or less correct although it would be likely a "Lady" as opposed to "Lord." But in this case, the character "殿" is pronounced "den" as in 清涼殿 or 紫宸殿. In that case, 殿 means a structure or building (usually big and luxurious) that noble (and/or rich) people are present. Palace may be the closest one I can think of. Asahi means morning sun and does not necessarily has to be the rising sun, but I could compromise. I suggest "Rising Sun Palace" or "Palace of the Rising Sun).

4. Daisekai - Big Sacred Sea

I prefer "Great Sacred Sea" or "Great Sacred Ocean." It sounds a little more natural in English. No?

5. Fugaku - Mount Fuji

This is not necessarily "wrong," but not quite "accurate" or "correct." Fugaku is like an alternate name for Mt. Fuji. To me, it is like translating Hoosier Orchid Company as Indiana Orchid Company.

6. Gekkeikan - Laurel Crown

This one is right. 冠/Kan (Crown) is also a word that is often used in "classic" plants such as Calanthe sieblodii 'Ôkan" or Dendrobium Ise 'San Kan' Ô.' You could argue if Dendrobium Ise is considered "classic" or not, though.

7. Gojyo Fukurin - Castle Fukurin

This one does not make sense at all. As you should know "Fukurin" is a type of (marginal/picotee) variegation. 御/Go of 御城 is a particle (?) to show respect to the following word, 城/jyô (castle). Why does this plant have a reference to a castle? This particular cultivar was found growing on rock wall of Matsusaka Castle, Mie Prefecture:
Matsusaka Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Throughout most of the Edo period, Matsusaka Castle was a secondary administrative center for the Kishu-Tokugawa clan, daimyō of Kishū Domain."

No wonder why the person who named this cultivar had to show respect.

I am getting tired, so this is it for now.

[Pilot]

I love this! I personally don't think much of the names of neos. I like to know their origins more so that some arbitrary name applied to them. So thank you for taking the time to write this up! It was very interesting.


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[AnonYMouse]

The Japanese names are rather poetic. The translations, not so much.

[kentaki]

Originally Posted by AnonYMouse

The Japanese names are rather poetic. The translations, not so much.

That is because of my limitation in English (or Engrish).

Three more.

8. Hakuun - White Snow

Remember when I wrote mistakes or mistranslation was largely due to the language capability of whoever translated names? This is a perfect example. 白雲 means "white cloud," but not white snow. I am not sure how the person got confused, but 雲/un (cloud) and 雪/setsu (snow) may look similar, especially to the eyes of non-native writers. And maybe that is how it started???

BTW, here's another blog entry of somebody on seedlings of a cultivar somewhat treated like its parent:
Çò±À - ÉÙµ®Íö¤Î³Ú¤·¤ßÊý - Yahoo!¥Ö¥í¥°

9. Hanagoromo - Clothes of a Flower

A little difficult to explain. This online dictionary lists three entries:
����も�花衣】��味 - 国語辞書 - goo辞書
１ 桜襲(さくらがさね)の衣。表は白、裏は紫または二藍(ふたあい)のもの。
２ 花見に着る晴れ着。花見の衣装。《季 春》
３ 華やかな衣。
Rough translation:
1. Traditional clothes. The front color is white and the back is purple.
2. Formal attire that you wear for Hanami, a party held under cherry blossom
3. Sumptuous/resplendent/florid (pick one) dress.

Basically, it does not have much to do with "flower." I would suggest "Resplendent Dress" because I am not a native writer, and resplendent sounds deep and sophisticated, or even mystifying, compared to ordinarily "gorgeous" or "dazzling." And if I repeat saying this 10 times when I am drowsy, I am sure it sounds like Greek. Is a "gown" more upscale? If that is the case, how about "Resplendent Gown"? A dramatic departure from "Clothes of a Flower."

10. Hoshiguruma - Star Car

Another hard one to explain. There is no product as Hoshiguruma in reality, I think. I Googled, and found a cultivar of Camellia with the same cultivar name:
http://blogimg.goo.ne.jp/user_image/...94b6a36efb.jpg
As you may know Camellia japonica is also "kinda classic" although naming of these seems a little bit different. So this name may be simply an homage or reference to a cultivar of another plant, and thus translation may not be quite useful.

星/Hoshi part is easy to understand because this flowers of cultivar have a star shape form. 車/Kuruma (or guruma) means automobiles in a modern society, but it meant more like bullock carts:

ファイル:Ch42 nioumiya.jpg - Wikipedia

My best try would be "Starry Carriage." Does this sound poetic enough?

And thanks for compliments. I am getting drowsy, so I stop.

[AnonYMouse]

Not what I meant.

I can't say I understand much Japanese but I know something is lost in translation (perhaps "kan"). For me, the English translation is unnecessary.

[brn_thmbs]

This is fantastic. Way over my head, but I love seeing this. Someone, somewhere will run with this. I say go kentaki!

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[Red Orchid]

I am intrigued with this thread how can we make it a sticky it should not get lost. Kentaki thank you.....please don't go away "teacher" I am learning so much from you.

[coffeecup]

Thanks Kentaki for your interesting posts. I figured the translation was butchered along the way somewhere since some of these names sound strange.

[kentaki]

Originally Posted by AnonYMouse

Not what I meant.

I knew what you meant, but I am also aware of my limitation in English.

For others:

Thank you for compliments, but I also welcome criticism. Are those translated names "natural"? Or do they make sense?

---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------

11. Kinkosei - Golden Light Star

This also sounds odd to me. 金 (gold or golden) 光 (Light) 星 (Star) and therefore, it must be Golden Light Star. But stars in general emit light with some exceptions like black dwarfs and such. I am guessing 光 was added because otherwise it means "Venus" or "Victory." I think "Golden Star" is sufficient.

12. Kocho No Mai - Butterfly Dance

This looks fine to me.

13. Kohou - Yellow Treasure

I feel it does not sit that well with me, but I can't think of anything else.

14. Kutsuwamushi - Chirping Cricket

Another example showing a limitation of a translator. The name should be "Katydid." I also would have not known what katydids were unless some attacked my Paph. Maudiae a long time ago.

クツワムシ:
https://www.google.com/search?q=%E3%...w=1440&bih=761

Katydid:
https://www.google.com/search?q=katy...w=1440&bih=798

Not the same species, but I think it is close enough.

15. Momo Hime - Peach Princess

It is kinda okay, but when 桃/momo refers to a color as in 桃色, it means pink. Probably "Pink Princess" would be more appropriate.

16. Nishi De Miyako - West Side Kyoto

I have explained about this one before.
http://www.orchidboard.com/community...-flower-5.html

While 出/De means "to exit," but also means "come from" as in 出身 (birth place, hometown). Since this was likely found in western Kyoto Prefecture, west of Kyoto City, it means "Found in West of Miyako." I hesitate to translate Miyako as Kyoto, though.

17. Seiryujishi - Blue dragon backbone lion

Another gibberish. Blue dragon part is correct although it probably is "green" as opposed to "blue." WTH is a backbone lion? 獅子/Shishi or Jishi means lion. When this word is used in "classic" plants such as Rohdea japonica, it refers to ruffled or wavy leaves. It also could mean flowers of the cultivar may have petals like sepals, but I am not going to that now. It probably comes from lion mane, and most Japanese in Edo era had never seen real lions. They were more like mythical creature like giraffes. You could see 獅子 manes of in these pictures:
芸術ã�®å¯ºç¤¾å½«åˆ»ãƒ»è¥¿æœ¬å½«åˆ»æ‰€: ç�…å*�
感じ方の画像AIGOの視線

How about "Ruffled Leaf Blue (Green?) Dragon" or "Ruffled Leaved Blue (Green) Dragon"?

18. Setsuzan - Snow Mountain

Too much of direct translation. Did he know about adjectives? "Snowy Mountain."

19. Seikai - Blue ocean

That looks fine to me, but Daisekai (大聖海) is Big Sacred Sea, and 青海 (Seikai) is Blue Ocean?

20. Shou Ten Nou - Red Emperor

It should be spelled Shu Ten Nou (or Nô), but not "Shou." I have also explained, but it is not Emperor. In this case, it is spelled 朱天王, but not 朱天皇. 天王 can mean emperor, but it is not a common usage. 天王 - Wikipedia
Besides, Japanese would avoid naming plants in reference to an emperor in general although there are exceptions. 朱/shu is supposedly equivalent of vermilion. I think "Vermilion King" would be sufficient for now. When I Google for 朱天王 in Japanese, I only find sites on Neofinetia. But I do find Chinese sites on something elses, so there may be some old reference that I am not aware of.

21. Suikaden - Imperial flag

So 朝日殿/Asahiden meant "Rising Sun Lord," but 翠華殿/Suikaden now means Imperial Flag? Another example of inconsistency. Remember the old Chinese poem 長恨歌 when I explained about 西出都?
é•·æ�¨æ*Œ - Wikipedia
翠華搖搖行復止、西出都門百餘里
Here's the translation (http://academic.hws.edu/chinese/huan...ghenge2.html):
"The imperial flag opened the way, now moving and now pausing
But thirty miles from the capital, beyond the western gate."

Yes, it means "Imperial Flag," and in this case it is decorated with feathers of kingfishers. But what happened to 殿/den, a building that noble (and or rich) people are present?

The truth is, it is a name of building from Tang Dynasty. ????????????????_??_???? When I used Google translate, it gave me "Greenwood Hall." For some reason, I like this, but is this too "Americanized"? I do not see a reason to translate this one.

22. Unkai - Sea of clouds

Looks ok to me.

23. Yodonomatsu - Pine of Yodo

One thing I noticed about these Fûkiran manes, it is very inconsistent in the treatment of "no." It basically functions like "of." I guess Amanogawa is okay because it does exist as a compound word. But I think it should be Yodo No Matsu in this case. Otherwise, it is ok, but should it be "Pine of Yodo," or "Pines of Yodo"? I am not sure about this one.

[kentaki]

Will do only five at one time because somebody mocked the length of my writing.

From this thread: List of Irregular Neofinetia Flowers

1. 天女の舞 Tennyo No Mai

This is easy. "Dance of Vestal Maiden"

2. 南国の舞 Nangoku No Mai

This one is a bit difficult. 南国 means somewhere (country) warmer and often exotic. But if I translate this to "Exotic Dance," some may feel uncomfortable. "Tropical Dance" is a bit too much of stretch. I have to think on this.

3. 花纏 Hana Matoi

Another difficult one. 花/hana means flower. 纏/matoi (or matou) is a verb meaning to cover or wrap. It seems there is a cultivar of Japanese maple with the same cultivar name. OMG, another CLASSIC plant!
¥¬¡¼¥Ç¥ó¡¦¥Á¥³¥ê - ¥â¥ß¥¸¡Ö²ÖÅ»¡Ê¤Ï¤Ê¤Þ¤È¤¤¡Ë¡×¡¡Çò»¶Áݹþ(Á¯¹È¶ù¡¢ºÙ» Þ¿â¤ìÍÕ¡¡ÀÜÃæÉÄ1³ô

But I also found some gaudy thingies they use for festivals:
Âç¹¾¸Í¥À¥ó¥¹¤Î¡¡³ÆÏ¢¤Î²ÖÅ» - Âç¹¾¸Í¥À¥ó¥¹¡¦Éñº×Ï¢¹ç²ñ - Yahoo!¥Ö¥í¥°
高島平大江戸舞ç¥*

Oh, no, I copied and pasted inscrutable websites!

I need help from you guys.

4. 花簪 Hana Kanzashi

This one is kinda easy. "Floral Hairpin."

5. 春及殿 Shunkyû Den

Apparently, there was no building under this name, and no poem, etc. 春/shun is spring, 及/kyû to come up, reach, or influence, 殿/den, hall. It probably means A hall that spring comes or reaches, but of course, it is a gibberish at this point.

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

6. 鯱甲龍 Shachi Kôryu

Shachi is a mythical creature, not to be confused with killer whales:
ファイル:Shyachi hoko Kumamoto castle.jpg - Wikipedia

甲龍 is a type of "gei," and used when there is a bump along the midvein of leaves. If you Google 甲龍, it shows you a whole bunch of Ankylosaurus, but it is not about dinosaurs.

7. 高野の華 Kôya No Hana

"Flower of Kôya." Mount Kôya is the name of mountains in Wakayama Pref. One of the most famous Japanese priests founded a temple in around 819:
Mount K
I am not sure this plant has something to do with Mt. Kôya, though.

8. Ten Shin/万像殿 Banshô Den

Supposedly, these are the same cultivar.

Ten Shin means two things. I was going to pass this one, but I looked up.
天心:��味 - �文辞書 - Weblio�語辞典
①天の意思。天意。天子の心。
出典平治物語　上
「上（かみ）はてんしんに背き、下（しも）は人望に背かる」
[訳] 上は天意に背き、下は民衆の信頼に背かれる。
②天の中心。天空のまん中。中天。
出典蕪村句集　俳諧
「月てんしん貧しき町を通りけり―蕪村」
[訳] ⇒つきてんしん…。

1. 天意 is "Providence," according to Google Translate, and it is good, I think. 2. 中天 is "Zenith." I think both sound "CLASSIC" and poetic, but which would be better? 万像 is also abstract concept, and means "everything that has shapes/forms." I am not going to touch this one.

9. 針葉獅子 Hariba Jishi

An interesting name because it is a combination of two gei's. Hariba is "Needle Leaves" or "Spiny Leaves." Jishi is used for cultivars with ruffled or wavy leaves.

10. 鈴虫 Suzumushi

Easy. Cricket

Oh, I apologize for links to inscrutable websites.

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

11. 紅飛蝶 Beni Hichô

"Flying Crimson Butterfly"

12. 小野小町 Ono No Komachi

Probably the most famous Japanese female poet along with Izumi Shikibu.
Ono no Komachi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The legend says that she was the most beautiful woman at that time. In fiction such as Nô plays, she was proposed by Fukakusa General (sound a bit odd), and she said she would accept if he would visit outside of her house for straight 100 nights. On the ninety ninth night, he froze to death in snow. Poor dude. Because of this fictional tale, she was believed not to have some reproductory feature. I should stop here before getting raunchy, but just take a look at flowers.

13. 彗星 Suisei

Comet

14. 星咲き Hoshizaki

This is not a cultivar name. Merely a description of "gei." It means star shaped, and has nothing to do with "spurless."

15. 天玉宝 Ten Gyokuhô

It is not that this is very difficult. It would be gibberish if I translate. I am going to think on this one.