Frustrated: what's going on here?

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by coffeecup

Maybe try removing the healthy growths from the ones affected and toss those. Repot the healthy ones in new media and just quarantine to make sure. I'm really sorry you're having so many issues.

I may do just that. No idea what the issue is. When I got it, it had some damage but as I said it was fresh damage and clearly due to the USPS stomping on it. Those bruises turned into tissue like this and I figured I'd grow it out-- but then I finally got sick of it and used a razor to remove those damaged fans-- but then it persisted.

I agree with the assertions that this is black rot. If you cut off damaged tissue to health tissue, the black rot will reappear on that healthy tissue and then some. In my experience (and yes, I've had other plants with black rot that I successfully cured, one being a temperamental bellina), it is curable and it doesn't really seem to spread too fast. This plant has been among the others for months and hasn't spread so I'm not terribly worried. I will however remove it and it'll live in the solar until I can get signs it is healthy again, or, I toss it.

It's such a beautiful plant when not so nasty with black rot.

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Red Orchid

I wouldn't risk my collection I would let it go. I had to do that with a Phrag that I'd been nurturing for a couple of years. It was so hard to do but later I had peace of mind regarding my other orchids. This is not the same but I lost an aquarium if beautiful cichlids with the introduction of some live feeder fish. Am wishing you the best Ryan that is a very sick Neo.

I have plenty of space away from the others to keep this plant-- there's no need to give up on it yet-- it may not look great in the pics, but in person it's not nearly as bad. But yes, it will live in the solar, away from other orchids.

---------- Post added at 01:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by LinhT

I thought black rot was a bacterial issue. So maybe fungicide will not do. Perhaps you can try Physan 20 instead? It's really hard to get rid od. In all honesty, if this was my plant I'd toss it. Sorry to hear of your orchid problems recently.

I'm pretty much going to throw everything I have at it. lol And yes I have physan but found it never did much. Black rot typically requires a systemic, of which I have.

---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Leafmite

Dip the fans everything but the roots) in isopropyl alcohol to dry and disinfect. Then treat. I would recommend a little extra calcium. Calcium deficiency is known to lead to this with other plants and I had it with my cattleyas. I add extra calcium when watering. I also add Ironite. Sometimes the materials we use as mediums or stuff in our water interferes with the absorption of the various elements due to pH or chemical reactions. Extra iron, calcium and magnesium, in small doses, seem to cure many problems with plants. Good luck!

Interesting suggestion on the Ca and Fe. I have epsom and a products called orchid pro that is heavy on hummus (or is it humus? One you eat, one you don't), that is good for Fe uptake-- it sort of "perks" plants up.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Pilot

Doesn't seem to have spread. Is this something I can cure or do I need to destroy the plant? Again, I've been using cleary's on it, which is a fungicide, systemic.

At the least isolate the plant far, far away from the others.

Originally Posted by LinhT

I thought black rot was a bacterial issue. So maybe fungicide will not do. Perhaps you can try Physan 20 instead? It's really hard to get rid od. In all honesty, if this was my plant I'd toss it. Sorry to hear of your orchid problems recently.

Physan 20 is not systemic, so it won't address any bacteria inside the plant. It's great for sanitizing surfaces.

Originally Posted by Pilot

I'm not above tossing it can go in to isolation for sure before I toss it. Clearys takes care bacterial black rot.

I'd be inclined to use Phyton 27 (follow all label precautions), which is a systemic bactericide and fungicide. I'd never heard that Cleary's 3336 would handle a bacterial rot, but I could be wrong.

Question: That's not the damaged Kinkosei you got in the stomped USPS box last May is it? That's the damaged plant I remembered you posting at the time (copied old post below), but that doesn't jibe with your description further back in this thread. I'd hate to hear that it is, because that doesn't look anything like a Kinkosei now (should be small semi-transparent spots on foliage).

Originally Posted by Pilot

Kinkosei, this guy is in kind of rough shape... Damaged leaves and such. But it makes sense once you see he box it showed up in. Dr Glenn did a good job packing these guys but the USPS did an awesome job of stomping on the box.


This is the box...AFTER I re shaped it a little.
Even though it was sent priority USPS, this box spent a week in Detroit before it finally came this way. The plants seem ok thank goodness, but why did the USPS use my box as punching bag? Lol.

[Pilot]

Nope different plant. That plant is doing very well despite getting squished.

I wasn't suggesting physan is a systemic only that I'd use it in my approach to helping this plant. Clearys is a phyton 27 equivalent. Again I've had black rot in a Phal before and using this fixed the issue with just two applications and possibly even one but I did a follow up app. This plant is hanagoromo and is gorgeous and should be in everyone's collection. This plant will look great again one day.


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[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by Pilot

Nope different plant. That plant is doing very well despite getting squished.

I wasn't suggesting physan is a systemic only that I'd use it in my approach to helping this plant. Clearys is a phyton 27 equivalent. Again I've had black rot in a Phal before and using this fixed the issue with just two applications and possibly even one but I did a follow up app. This plant is hanagoromo and is gorgeous and should be in everyone's collection. This plant will look great again one day.

Hmmm, maybe equivalent in some sense, but completely different chemically:

Cleary's 3336WP:
http://www.clearychemical.com/support/label/4151SL.pdf
ACTIVE INGREDIENT:
Thiophanate-methyl (dimethyl 4,4’-o-phenylenebis[3-thioallophanate]). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50.00% OTHER INGREDIENTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50.00% TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100.00%

Phyton 27:
http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenew...6_12_44_PM.pdf

ACTIVE INGREDIENT
Copper Sulphate Pentahydrate*.........21.36%
INERT INGREDIENTS..............................78.64% 100.00% *Copper as Metallic....................................5.5% Contains 2.06 lbs. Active Ingredient per gallon

I see orchids_limited has a couple hanagoromo listed on ebay now (including a very small one added yesterday), but not as nicely variegated as one that New World auctioned last month. Orchids Limited does list one in their regular store too and the picture there is much better (and bigger) than their 2 ebay listings; they have it as 4-6 growths for 65.

I also saw a suggestion on a Canadian seller's site to alternate high and low light:

Tropical Gardens Orchids

A stunning tiger pattern variety, where regular leaves are golden yellow. In order achieve the alternate yellow and green leaves in a plant(see enlarged picture) one must alternate light levels (alternate between high light and low light)

[rangiku]

I've had excellent success curing black rot with Clearys 3336F and killed several plants with black rot with Phyton 27...

[Pilot]

Originally Posted by rangiku

I've had excellent success curing black rot with Clearys 3336F and killed several plants with black rot with Phyton 27...

I have had similar experience. Clearys works no doubt. Have I ever showed you my bellina? I got it as a seedling. I know. What the heck was I thinking? But it was nearly lost to black rot. Clearys fixed that. Only a few weeks after it began to grow a new lead and roots and though it's not terribly big still it is one of my oldest plants now. Oh and it tried to spike last year. Maybe this year?!


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[Pilot]

Originally Posted by Jayfar

Hmmm, maybe equivalent in some sense, but completely different chemically:

Cleary's 3336WP:
http://www.clearychemical.com/support/label/4151SL.pdf
ACTIVE INGREDIENT:
Thiophanate-methyl (dimethyl 4,4’-o-phenylenebis[3-thioallophanate]). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50.00% OTHER INGREDIENTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50.00% TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100.00%

Phyton 27:
http://www.kellysolutions.com/erenew...6_12_44_PM.pdf

ACTIVE INGREDIENT
Copper Sulphate Pentahydrate*.........21.36%
INERT INGREDIENTS..............................78.64% 100.00% *Copper as Metallic....................................5.5% Contains 2.06 lbs. Active Ingredient per gallon

I see orchids_limited has a couple hanagoromo listed on ebay now (including a very small one added yesterday), but not as nicely variegated as one that New World auctioned last month. Orchids Limited does list one in their regular store too and the picture there is much better (and bigger) than their 2 ebay listings; they have it as 4-6 growths for 65.

I also saw a suggestion on a Canadian seller's site to alternate high and low light:

Tropical Gardens Orchids

Yep same effect different paths. Adrienne told me about it and she got the tip from a long time orchid grower. It works great. I had to treat a gig with this stuff recently and the plant has turned it around already.

Thanks for the seller info but I am stubborn. I want this plant and I will stick with it for now. Lord knows I've sacrificed enough minmaru to the orchid gods to have this one spared.


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[AnonYMouse]

I got desperate once and dissolved some leftover amoxicillin and drenched a plant. Don't know if it worked but that rot stopped.

Disclaimer: you should not have leftover antibiotics, the prescribed course should be completed!

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by rangiku

I've had excellent success curing black rot with Clearys 3336F and killed several plants with black rot with Phyton 27...

Originally Posted by Pilot

Yep same effect different paths. Adrienne told me about it and she got the tip from a long time orchid grower. It works great. I had to treat a gig with this stuff recently and the plant has turned it around already.

Originally Posted by Pilot

I have had similar experience. Clearys works no doubt. Have I ever showed you my bellina? I got it as a seedling. I know. What the heck was I thinking? But it was nearly lost to black rot. Clearys fixed that. Only a few weeks after it began to grow a new lead and roots and though it's not terribly big still it is one of my oldest plants now. Oh and it tried to spike last year. Maybe this year?!


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I stand corrected then. Sounds like I should get some Cleary's, just to have on hand when I inevitably need it. What's the best place to buy this from online? On Amazon I see the name brand Cleary's in several different forms from various dealers as well as generic brands.

I already have on hand, but haven't used:
Spectracide Immunox Multi-Purpose Fungicide (Myclobutanil ) - allegedly systemic
Mancozeb Flowable Fungicide W/Zinc - non-systemic

which I bought intending to spray in rotation on my Vandas that may have some Guignardia spotting on the leaves (I just have to find somewhere I can spray without destroying my lungs in the process).

[MattWoelfsen]

This is a very good discussion. Ryan, too bad about the plant but sharing your experience including pictures provides me with a reference just in case one of my Neofinetia experience this malady. I hope your efforts bring this plant back to health.