Neofinetia falcata Koukakuden 紅嚇殿 "Majestic Crimson Lord"

[MattWoelfsen]

Thanks Tracy! Fukiden=King; Mangetsu=Queen. I did take a picture of the Fukiden, so as soon as I get my photos organized, I'll post it on here. Since it is the King, I'll post in a separate thread. Workday beckons..ttfn!

[LinhT]

Originally Posted by s.kallima

Tracy, can you show us yours so we can droll

Actually, I don't have either one . I have resisted the tempation all this time. Amazing isn't it? I'm quite shocked myself. I'm sure there are plenty of growers out there who have one though. Every time SE has listed it on their website it's sold quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if those folks lurk here and have never posted

[Call_Me_Bob]

Beautiful Koukakuden! Now I can't wait for mine to bloom, it grew a new fan instead of blooming this year, guess I should be happy that the plant is growing larger. The leaves on yours look great! You kind of got a 'mystery surprise' with that pod! I can imagine that at any one time, Glenn has some incredible things blooming together, so if you're lucky you might have something super cool in that seedlings batch! But it's to my knowledge that most of the seedling will just be Furan, but there's always that hope of soemthing special! Make sure you share I selfed my Setsuzan and when it matured I'll send the pod off somewhere for flasking, I'll have to ask Ryan where he sent his.

[MattWoelfsen]

Thank you Quay San! If seedlings come from this pod, I will certainly offer every member of this Neofinetia forum a plant or two! They will be named: «The Many Storied Forum»

[Joyorchid]

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen

Thank you Quay San! If seedlings come from this pod, I will certainly offer every member of this Neofinetia forum a plant or two! They will be named: «The Many Storied Forum»

Or may I suggest an alternate name: "Neonuts Delight"

[MattWoelfsen]

LOL Joy! Yes, that would be a good name for the seedlings--if they are viable. I have to stop watching this plant and worrying over it. After all it got to this condition long before I came along and bought it!

[Biochick]

I happen to know that NWO has both for sale right now. I bet they would even furnish a picture if you liked...

[kentaki]

"殿"does mean "lord," but that is pronounced "tono." It is also used like "Mr." but in that case it is "dono." Since this is "den," it means more like "court" or "palace." Basically a big and expensive house for rich people.

[MattWoelfsen]

Originally Posted by kentaki

"殿"does mean "lord," but that is pronounced "tono." It is also used like "Mr." but in that case it is "dono." Since this is "den," it means more like "court" or "palace." Basically a big and expensive house for rich people.

The challenge non-Japanese speaking/illiterate people, like me, is to try to figure out what these names could mean in English. Further complicating things is that I am presented with two, Romanji (which helps pronounce the name) and (inscrutable to Western eyes) kanji. The Neofinetia venders call these plants "Koukakuden" not in reference to a place setting or a salutation, but to denote that this plant has similar flower characteristics as another plant named "Shutennou 朱天王 Red Emperor". Koukakuden has a different leaf style.

Since there could only be one emperor in the Kingdom of Neofinetia, this plant is named Koukakuden. This is not to say that a Koukakuden plant is anything less in value or desirability to a Shutennou. Or perhaps it does (?) as Neofinetia are ranked in preference every year by the Fukiran Society of Japan.

Would it not be better to refer to this plant, in English, as "Majestic Crimson Lord" versus "A Big and Expensive House for Rich People"?

[kentaki]

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen

"Majestic Crimson Lord" versus "A Big and Expensive House for Rich People"?

I was only referring to the "den" part. Not the whole thing. Here's an entry at Wikipedia:
殿 - Wikipedia

I put it on Google translate, and most of it is just a gibberish. But this translated well:
Originally is a word that refers to the residence of nobles, but it refers to the nobles who live there euphemistically.

Also: 御殿 - Wikipedia

"Palace (your point)
Will of the mansion that person in a high position is live."

I think the main issue is that whoever translated cultivar names, both Japanese and English speaking people, are not quite familiar with the other language, culture, etc.

One constructive approach would be both side of people sitting down and clarifying the matter, as opposed to a situation that somebody coming up with his/her own translation which may further perpetuate confusion or mistake. But that is just my "humble" opinion.

BTW, we normally do not run into this type of problem with orchid names. The Japanese normally do not attempt to translate orchid names in Japanese. You may see a terrific example of Engrish, especially in now demised "New Orchids" magazine. But that is another story.