Neo pronunciation guide

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

Very interesting. In other words:

Shu-Ten-Nou
Shutennou
Shutenou

all appear to be the 'English' translations of the same clone.

I would say that the last one, Shutenou would be considered a misspelling. The name is three distinct syllables, split up in the same way that you wrote the first variation. Shu-ten-nou. The second syllable should end with an N sound and the third syllable should begin with an N sound.

These should be called transliterations (conversion of the text from one script to another) rather than translations (conversion of the meaning from one language to another).

Translated, Shutennou, 朱天王, would be "Vermillion Heavenly King". With heavenly king possibly referring to one of the four protective Buddhist deities known as the Shi-tennou.

Some people translate the name as "vermillion" "red" or "scarlet emperor", but this is inaccurate. The title for the Emperor of Japan while pronounced Tennou as well, it is written differently.

(As a side note, when the word is used to mean Emperor, it refers to specifically and only to an emperor of Japan. The word for emperors from other countries would be Koutei (皇帝) )

天皇 - Emperor of Japan
天王 - Heavenly King

[MattWoelfsen]

Very educational Hakumin. I did a search for the word "Shitennō" and got a lot of information on the Buddhist four guardians of the cardinal directions. Fascinating. I know that hobbyist are want to name plants for some reason or another. Calling this Neofinetia plant Shutennou must describe some feature of the plant? If indeed the original name was used to describe the plant's flower color, it is one of the darkest red flowers for Neofinita.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen

I know that hobbyist are want to name plants for some reason or another. Calling this Neofinetia plant Shutennou must describe some feature of the plant? If indeed the original name was used to describe the plant's flower color, it is one of the darkest red flowers for Neofinita.

The "vermillion" (朱) part of the name definitely refers to the color of the peduncle but the "tennou" (天王) is well beyond me in terms of what it might be describing. I have noticed however, that sometimes there's really no decipherable reason some of the plants are named what they are...it was all in the individual grower's mind i guess...

[MattWoelfsen]

Some are obvious, like Manjushage--when you see its flowers you can see a flock of flying cranes--which is such good fortune. But beyond that simple imagery, it is a mystery. I am glad you help us solve some of that with your willingness to share. Thank you.

[ramp]

Thanks for correcting the mistranslating we are using for years.
Very interesting stuff.

[Fairorchids]

@Hakumin
Thanks for clarification. I have seen different vendors and/or breeders use all 3 spellings in English.

@MattWoelfsen
The darkest red NF that I have is 'Beni-Komachi'. 'Shu-Ten-Nou' has magenta cast on the buds, and only a faint hint of color on the opening flowers. However, it is being used for breeding colored flowers.

Second photo is my most recent blooming of 'Shu-Ten-Nou'. If you look at the partially open flower in the center, it has some color on petals, but they fade as the flower matures.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by MattWoelfsen

Some are obvious, like Manjushage--when you see its flowers you can see a flock of flying cranes

I should mention, Manjushage (曼珠沙華) comes from the name of a different, non-orchid flower, Lycoris radiata. The triple spur and symmetry is supposed to resemble the long curved stamens of the namesake flower.

I think you got the Flying Cranes reference from the clonal (?) name of an awarded plant. I recently noticed one for sale on florapeculia.

[MattWoelfsen]

That is correct Hakumin--all references to "Manjushage" that I have seen refer to "Flying Cranes" or "White Cranes." If you find a picture with this plant presented at an exhibition, you will often see it potted in a lovely Neofinetia pot featuring white, flying cranes.

[Hakumin]

I'm not sure If I was clear, though I apologize ahead of time if I am misunderstanding.

The word Manjushage does not contain or refer to cranes at all. It is one of the two common names of the lily, Lycoris radiata, and the literal meanings of the kanji would be something like "Beautiful Gem Sand Flower". However, the word's literal meaning won't make much sense since it was a phonetic transcription of a Sanskrit word.

The name Manjushage comes from the Sanskrit word Manjusaka, referring to a mythological "celestial flower that only blooms on the summit of Mt. Gandhamadana" featured in Buddhist and other Indian mythologies.

The 'flying cranes' reference comes from one specific AOS awarded plant and its divisions and is a completely separate name and not a translation. It does not refer to all manjushage plants. This is in much the same way as the awarded Shutennou, 'New World'

[MattWoelfsen]

No apologies necessary, Hakumin. Trying to correct a misunderstanding of what "Manjushage" means when you are having a discussion with someone who does not have your knowledge is difficult. I understand what you mean. Thank you for hanging in there with me.

This discussion is enlightening. From what I gather, Neofinetia growers named a Neofinetia plant Manjushage because its flower looks like another native Japanese plant. Here is Neofinita falcata Manjushage (photo from the web).


Neofinetia Manjushage by MattWoelfsen, on Flickr

And here is that referenced plant. photo from the web.


Spider Lily Manjushage by MattWoelfsen, on Flickr

So it is clear what the reference is for these two plants.