Baby roots turned black

[Shoreguy]

Sphag rots when stifled, that’s why when used in mounding, the mound is hollow.

The way you are proceeding makes me believe that the only way it is going to bloom is that to perpetuate itself, plants occasionally bloom before dying.

[RoseSD]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Sphag rots when stifled, that’s why when used in mounding, the mound is hollow.

The way you are proceeding makes me believe that the only way it is going to bloom is that to perpetuate itself, plants occasionally bloom before dying.

That was a strangely harsh reply. But I appreciate that you clearly care about Neofinetia. The thing is not everyone has all supplies if they just began the journey and has only a tiny baby that needs repotting. In fact, I would love to try the formula that you recommended and love. Would you be willing to send a sandwich bag worth of pre mixed bark+tree fern to try out?

Also, sounds like you don't like Foliage Pro as fertilizer either? Why not?

[Roberta]

I think that Shoreguy just noted that tree fern mixed with bark was useful if you have it, but mixing with sphagnum is what is to be avoided. What I take from this is that plain old bark (preferably small bark) would be fine. The important thing to note is that Neos need to be able to dry out, so drainage of the medium is important. Water retention is not. Shoreguy was concerned about your desire to keep the spagnum mixed with bark, which is an invitation to rot. He is passionate about Neos, fears that you will kill yours if you keep doing what you are doing.

I missed the part about Foliage Pro fertilzer... never heard of it. If it is supposed to be sprayed on leaves, it would unsuitable for orchids because orchid leaves have a thick cuticle (evolved to protect them from drying out) and foliar feeds are not absorbed. Maybe some drips on the substrate eventually and gets to the roots, but it is better to feed the root zone in the first place.

[Shoreguy]

Originally Posted by RoseSD

That was a strangely harsh reply. But I appreciate that you clearly care about Neofinetia. The thing is not everyone has all supplies if they just began the journey and has only a tiny baby that needs repotting. In fact, I would love to try the formula that you recommended and love. Would you be willing to send a sandwich bag worth of pre mixed bark+tree fern to try out?

Also, sounds like you don't like Foliage Pro as fertilizer either? Why not?

If you are interested in growing neos well and flowering them, you should first get some supplies. The first decision is whether you are going to go the sphag mound route or the bark mix route, if the latter, you will need the proper tree fern (not New Zealand) which is hard to obtain. Here is a link for proper tree fern.

Tree fern fiber - Flori-Culture: Orchid & Specialty Growing Supply

Get their coarse grade and break down to approx 1/2 to 5/8 inches. 1/4 is too short.

As far as plant food, the type is of paradoxically relatively pretty small importance compared to the mix. I use Jack's All Purpose 20 20 20 year round, always use more diluted than recommended and infrequently, especially in winter. Over feeding will break down the bark prematurely. If you want the plants to grow year round, it is generally okay, but not preferable, to feed uniformly all year as neos seem to take it but be sure to dilute as mentioned.

I might mention that the bark/tree fern mix is appropriate for Phalaenopsis and Paphiopedilums in addition to Neos.

[Shoreguy]

Originally Posted by Roberta

I think that Shoreguy just noted that tree fern mixed with bark was useful if you have it, but mixing with sphagnum is what is to be avoided. What I take from this is that plain old bark (preferably small bark) would be fine.

No, the addition of the tree fern is essential to provide aeration to the mix required for the health of the roots.

[RoseSD]

[QUOTE=Shoreguy;973163]If you are interested in growing neos well and flowering them, you should first get some supplies. The first decision is whether you are going to go the sphag mound route or the bark mix route, if the latter, you will need the proper tree fern (not New Zealand) which is hard to obtain. Here is a link for proper tree fern.

## Thanks for the link. How does tree fern perform better than small barks? Should moss be added? ##

Tree fern fiber - Flori-Culture: Orchid & Specialty Growing Supply

Get their coarse grade and break down to approx 1/2 to 5/8 inches. 1/4 is too short.

## they are expensive! And I don't know how to "break them down"... If I only use moss how much do I use and how tightly should the plant seat in pot?

If I use bark mix only this is what I have ( I added a little moss myself). Is this better or worse than moss?


Thanks for the link. How does tree fern perform better than small barks? Should moss be added?

Tree fern fiber - Flori-Culture: Orchid & Specialty Growing Supply

##Get their coarse grade and break down to approx 1/2 to 5/8 inches. 1/4 is too short.##

Tree fern are expensive! And I don't know how to "break them down"... If I only use moss how much do I use and how tightly should the plant seat in pot?

If I use bark mix only this is what I have ( I added a little moss myself). Is this better or worse than moss?

[Roberta]

RoseSD, the "moss mound" approach is the classic Japanese method for potting Neos. I suspect that this is not something that you want to do as a beginner with the species... you can do some research within Orchid Board and also on the Web to understand what it entails. It provides lots of air to the roots, as well as providing the aesthetic properties for displaying the plants in the traditional manner. If done correctly, it works very well. But if all the details are not attended to, it can "look right" and be deadly to the plant. If you are not familiar with this approach to Neofinetia growing (from your questions and comments I am pretty sure that is the case), don't jump in until you understand the details.

[Shoreguy]

I have made myself perfectly clear. Reread what I have said. You have obviously overlooked some of my posts in this thread. Start from the beginning.

There is absolutely no place for sphag unless you are doing the complex method of mounding.

Break the tree fern down with your hands, it is brittle.

I am going to state the two main points below for the last time. I will not answer any more questions.

1) Sphag should ONLY be used for neos using the complicated hollow mound method. Its use otherwise causes it to rot. It should NEVER be used any other way. Do NOT add it to bark.

2). The addition of tree fern to the bark is essential to provide aeration to maintain healthy Neofinetia roots.

[camille1585]

I do not agree that sphag can only be used for the hollow mound method, nor do I agree that tree fern is essential. I am also not a fan of the words 'ONLY' and 'NEVER' when it comes to orchids, as there are many ways of doing things that will work equally well, and often depend a lot on growing conditions and watering habits.

Tree fern is far from being sustainable, often difficult to find, usually expensive, and growers also have plenty of success mixing bark with other ingredients such as leca, charcoal or large grade perlite.

As to sphagnum, it can be used mixed in small amounts with bark, and is very helpful in dry climates where pure bark dries too quickly. Moderate to heavy misting in the winter instead of proper watering (as with sphag mounds) is enough to avoid root rot.

I have also used a mix of bark and sphag very successfully to save a nearly rootless Neofinetia, by using it in layers. I potted the Neo in bark, and top dressed the pot with a fairly thick layer of sphag to maintain humidity around the newly forming roots. This worked extremely well, the plant produced many new roots and recovered quickly.

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[Shoreguy]

Camille,

How long have you been growing Neofinetias this way? The issue is how long the medium will last before repotting is required before breakdown.

Layering sphag on the top appears to be helpful but not mixed below. Top layer sphag sounds like a very good idea under some circumstances.

I still contend that tree fern mixed within the bark is essential for healthy roots long term, as much as 5 to 7 years without repotting assuming proper feeding and watering.

I never said that non New Zealand tree fern was easy to find. I agree that it is very difficult (or nearly impossible) and that is why I provided the link. I realize in some locations it might not be available from that link. Perhaps mixing with charcoal, leca, or large size perlite as you mention could be a substitute if non New Zealand tree fern is not available or affordable.
I don't know whether those are adequate long term to provide aeration. But mixing below the surface with sphag retards aeration and will eventually cause rot.