Bad roots on Neofinetia falcata

[Ember33]

Hello everyone! I am a new member and I would like to ask you for some help.
I recently received this blooming Neofinetia Falcata Beer that I ordered online, from a local flower shop. It was potted in fine bark chips and when I took it out of the pot to have a look, I've seen that it has a smaller division too. The leaves on the plants don't have wrinkles but at the base, some seem yellower.
The root systems on both the bigger plant and the smaller one, are not that great.
On the bigger one I would say is worse. Roots seem desiccated and the velamen is broken from place to place.
I removed only the paper dry parts and repotted the orchids in transparent plastic containers (with holes on sides and bottom).
I used a mix of large pieces of charcoal, pine bark and some shpagnum moss. And tried as best as I could, not to compact the moss.
Since I have zero experience with Neos, I wonder if I did good on how I repotted them. Would they do better only in sphagnum?
They sit on east facing windowsill where the temperature at the moment reach between 13-14 degrees Celsius ( 55-57 Fahrenheit).
A small humidifier is placed near them and the air humidity varies between 60-75% during the day.
Soon I will receive a heating mat that I plan on using with my other orchids (Tolumnias, Mini Phals, Ascofinetia).
Is it a good idea to places the Neos on the heating mat to stimulate their root growth? From what I gathered, they seem to like cooler temperatures. Also, how often should they be watered?
I understood that in the winter time they should not be watered very often. But in the state that they are now, I am scared I might induce dehydration and hinder the growth of new roots.

[estación seca]

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

It's problematic getting plants in fall/winter. Your plant's leaves were getting adequate water; I know this because the leaves are not wrinkled with dessication. Its roots were OK for the plant. Some people repot all orchids on arrival. I very definitely do not. Repotting a Neo in early winter leads to a lot of worry.

Neos don't do well moist and cool. They will survive many months if dry and cool, but can rot in a few days if watered heavily.

Now that you've repotted, keep it brightly lit. If leaves begin shriveling use a spray bottle to moisten just the top of the medium. If you put it on the heat mat, water when the leaves just begin to shrivel. Always remember they live longer dry than cool and wet.

[Ember33]

Originally Posted by estación seca

Welcome to the Orchid Board!

It's problematic getting plants in fall/winter. Your plant's leaves were getting adequate water; I know this because the leaves are not wrinkled with dessication. Its roots were OK for the plant. Some people repot all orchids on arrival. I very definitely do not. Repotting a Neo in early winter leads to a lot of worry.

Neos don't do well moist and cool. They will survive many months if dry and cool, but can rot in a few days if watered heavily.

Now that you've repotted, keep it brightly lit. If leaves begin shriveling use a spray bottle to moisten just the top of the medium. If you put it on the heat mat, water when the leaves just begin to shrivel. Always remember they live longer dry than cool and wet.

I admit it was bit unwise to get myself into this situation ( dealing as a beginner with Neofinetias in winter time). But I hope I can pull through.
The plants arrived in a flexible plastic container with a drainage hole. Some of the media spilled outside the pot during transportation and the roots moved around. I thought that if I will put them in transparent pots (to observe what's going on inside) with more ventilation holes and is gonna be easier to grow them. But perhaps I should have waited more.
Anyways, thank you very much for the good advice regarding watering, temperature and light! I will make sure to water only when I see some slight shriveling going on.

[Orchidtinkerer]

those look standard for what you would expect straight from the shop.
What you want to avoid at this stage is ever having it as wet as it is on the picture you have shown us.

Keep it dry! If you water only water the root tips, keep the stem bone dry!

If you follow that advice you will get it through winter, if not the plant will be in bad shape.

I would use a bit of spagnum moss and just place the roots on top for now so the roots are in contact with damp moss and the rest of the plant stays dry and airy.

As long as one root is in contact with something damp (not wet) it will get all the moisture it needs, don't overwater it at this stage

[Shoreguy]

55-57 temperature at the moment? What is the daily range?

If that is it, could be problematic especially when wet.

Can you vary when the heating pad is in use?

I would not mix sphagnum and bark, seems that would result in the sphagnum rotting. I grow in a mixture of bark and shredded tree fern. Is tree fern available to you? That mixture is far better than the mixture you are using.

[Ember33]

Thank you very much everyone for your advice and help! I appreciate it!

Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer

those look standard for what you would expect straight from the shop.

I thought initially that it was me who was unlucky and got the plant with not so good looking roots. First time I order a Neofinetia orchid. Maybe I just had unrealistic expectations.

Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer

Keep it dry! If you water only water the root tips, keep the stem bone dry!

Understood!

Originally Posted by Orchidtinkerer

I would use a bit of spagnum moss and just place the roots on top for now so the roots are in contact with damp moss and the rest of the plant stays dry and airy.As long as one root is in contact with something damp (not wet) it will get all the moisture it needs, don't overwater it at this stage

How would you water the moss in this case? Through spraying or through dunking? And how often?
To be honest, I am a bit afraid to expose the roots of orchids, to direct contact with air, in my environment. It takes skill and ability to know when exactly to water which I am not able to master.
For example all the aerial roots of Phalaenopsis dry out (those in the pots do just fine) and I also failed at mounting. I killed through dehydration a fair share of roots of a mounted Tolumnia.

---------- Post added at 02:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

55-57 temperature at the moment? What is the daily range?If that is it, could be problematic especially when wet.

The temperature would not rise above approx. 59F (15C) during the day, so yes is quite chill. Initially, I assumed this would not be such a big issue for a Neofinetia but I was rushing to buy the plant, having just superficial information.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Can you vary when the heating pad is in use?

I have not used the heating mat yet, as it has not arrived (this week or next one I should have it). But it does not have a thermostat anyway. I don't know how much the temperature will vary. I'll have to measure it with a thermometer.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

I would not mix sphagnum and bark, seems that would result in the sphagnum rotting. I grow in a mixture of bark and shredded tree fern. Is tree fern available to you? That mixture is far better than the mixture you are using.

Unfortunately tree fern is not available in my country. I will have a look on Ebay, Amazon, etc.

[camille1585]

I often use a mix of bark and sphagnum for orchids, and do not observe that the sphagnum rots faster. Repotting just has to be done more frequently than if using pure bark, as sphagnum generally needs replacing sooner than bark.

I recieved a Neofinetia last year with similar roots to yours (normally I get plants with very nice roots, unless it's a recent import). I potted it in the smallest pot it would fit in, in bark. Then I top dressed the pot with a layer of sphagnum and kept that layer damp. In warmer months you can easily dunk the pot, but in the winter that can be a recipe for disaster if the temperature is cool. What I do in the winter (with my sphagnum mounded Neos) is to heavily mist the sphagnum every other day or so (waiting for it to get crispy before I mist it again), which keeps the plant hydrated over the winter, but not soggy.

That being said, I recieved my poorly rooted plant in late winter, so had the advantage of having the entire growing season to get it to root.

You mention Phals, so I assume that you have another, warmer growing area for them? You could consider growing the Neofinetia with them this winter, and then you'd be walking less of a tightrope when it comes to watering. Heatmat could be a good option, usually it raises the root temperature a least a couple degrees above ambient.

[Ember33]

Originally Posted by camille1585

I often use a mix of bark and sphagnum for orchids, and do not observe that the sphagnum rots faster. Repotting just has to be done more frequently than if using pure bark, as sphagnum generally needs replacing sooner than bark.

I recieved a Neofinetia last year with similar roots to yours (normally I get plants with very nice roots, unless it's a recent import). I potted it in the smallest pot it would fit in, in bark. Then I top dressed the pot with a layer of sphagnum and kept that layer damp. In warmer months you can easily dunk the pot, but in the winter that can be a recipe for disaster if the temperature is cool. What I do in the winter (with my sphagnum mounded Neos) is to heavily mist the sphagnum every other day or so (waiting for it to get crispy before I mist it again), which keeps the plant hydrated over the winter, but not soggy.

That being said, I recieved my poorly rooted plant in late winter, so had the advantage of having the entire growing season to get it to root.

You mention Phals, so I assume that you have another, warmer growing area for them? You could consider growing the Neofinetia with them this winter, and then you'd be walking less of a tightrope when it comes to watering. Heatmat could be a good option, usually it raises the root temperature a least a couple degrees above ambient.

Great info! Thanks for sharing your experience!
The growing area is the same. The mini Phals reside in that windowsill for almost 2 years now. They are in spike currently and I had no issues with root rot. So I've seen they can survive but I wanted to add the extra heat from the mat to boost their growth. In the summer they really thrive. But the cold season is more challenging.
This year was the first time I learned about heat pads/mats. Had I known earlier, I would have used them.
The reason why kept them in that place, was the good natural light. Moving to a warmer place would also mean to start growing under lights.

[Shoreguy]

The purpose of adding shredded tree fern to bark for neos is to provide aeration, something that is not provided by adding sphagnum to bark. Aeration for the roots is highly advisable. If you get the tree fern, get medium shred and break it up into pieces 3/8 to a 1/2 inch long. Do not get fine or course grade. Also put coarser bark at the bottom of the pot for drainage. I have been successfully growing neos for over 50 years.

When sphagnum is used for Neofinetia, aeration is achieved by traditional mounding above the pot rim with an internal hollow netted cone.

Since you have two separated growths, you may wish to try different media and see which works best for you.

[Orchidtinkerer]

Originally Posted by Ember33

How would you water the moss in this case? Through spraying or through dunking? And how often?
To be honest, I am a bit afraid to expose the roots of orchids, to direct contact with air, in my environment. It takes skill and ability to know when exactly to water which I am not able to master.
For example all the aerial roots of Phalaenopsis dry out (those in the pots do just fine) and I also failed at mounting. I killed through dehydration a fair share of roots of a mounted Tolumnia.[COLOR="Silver"]

Yes I was exactly the same when I first started. I think generally people tend to overwater more than underwater.
If you have had bad experience go with your gut instinct but the plant is quite fragile, not unusual and you could have certainly received better! but you have to get it through winter which is the trickiest time as it hardly grows (unless you provide it some day time heat) however that is more experimenting and an easy way to dessicate roots so I wouldn't advise a heat mat unless you have experience using one. Keep it with the phals if you can.

Even though I understand your concern re exposed roots those will be better conditions (even if it won't seem like it) then too wet. I forgot to water an orchid here for a month recently. Hasn't done any harm. I'm not saying you neo can handle that, bareroot it could probably only handle 3 days but the roots (if they are alive) are very good at self regulating moisture in the root as long as they have access to something moist - the consensus seems to be that tree fern is best.

Just spray the moss or tree fern every day or two so it gets damp, don't ever soak moss! It can absorb too much water.
That is actually very important, moss can hold so much water it will keep your orchid hydrated for a long time even if only half wet but it can hold too much for an orchid. Bark can be soaked, never soak spagnum moss.

Sounds like you have a lot to try to get right with very little experience doing so, it won't be easy, I won't lie but it is not that hard once you know what you need to do.

So unpot the orchid.
Visualise or take a picture of the roots
Let the roots gently dry for 24 hours.
Visualise or take a picture of the roots.

Compare the colour of the two pictures, you need to aim for a colour in between the two at all times or the lower half of the root a wet color and the top a dry color. This is hard to judge if you bury the roots completely

If the root is completely wet all the way up to the stem it is too saturated. Hope I haven't confused you more.
Good luck with it

I should add that neofinetia roots are more sensitive than phal roots to rotting when too saturated so it is even more important to periodically let the roots reach a dry or semi-dry state