Neofinetia falcata - or not!

[Fairorchids]

While I am not a major Neo grower, I do keep an eye on what is coming to the market. Based on conversations with other growers (primarily Kristen Uthus from New World Orchids), I would like to share following:

It is exciting when you see a strongly colored Neo. However, as a general rule, the strongly colored flowers are NOT true Neofinetia falcata.

• Years ago I purchased Neofinetia falcata 'Beni-Komachi' from a well known seller (frequently mentioned in this forum). It is a hybrid.
• There is a well known clone simply called 'Yellow'. It is a hybrid.
• In recent years I have seen seedlings made with 'Koto'. It is a hybrid.
• In recent years I have seen seedlings made with 'Syoujou' or some such spelling. It is a hybrid.

In other words, if it has more pigment than Shu-Ten-Nou, it is likely too good to be true.

[Ray]

I don’t think that there is much distinction between species and hybrids in the neo world. Form and appearance are the important factors.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

In recent years I have seen seedlings made with 'Syoujou' or some such spelling. It is a hybrid.

While the other varieties you mention by name are indeed hybrids, Shōjō 猩々 is pure and registered in Japan. A proper Shojo has basically identical flowers to Shutenno. I have occasionally seen mislabeled ones ones with darker or solidly colored flowers going around, and I think these came from a batch of seedlings produced in the US that mixed Shojo and Koto.

Originally Posted by Fairorchids

In other words, if it has more pigment than Shu-Ten-Nou, it is likely too good to be true.

There are a few pure neo varieties that have darker pink flowers than Shutenno. Some of these include Shinryuko, Benisuzume, Tosashinko, etc.

The darkest flowered pure neo is Benitengu and while the variety has been around for decades, it was registered in Japan in 2018 because of its exceptional color.

A better indication that a pink flowered Neo is a hybrid is the evenness of the color. Pink flowered pure neos will generally have uneven coloration, and pretty much anything that has even, solid pink petals (especially if the lip is also colored) is a hybrid.

In terms of yellow flowered neos, pure neos with yellow flowers will only have a very pale, fleetingly yellow color. Oyashima and Zuiun are two of the few pure neos with yellow flowers. Pure neo yellow flowers will also bloom at the darkest and slightly fade after opening. Hybrid yellow flowered neos on the other hand will bloom white or pale yellow and darken in color over a few days after blooming.



---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Ray

I don’t think that there is much distinction between species and hybrids in the neo world. Form and appearance are the important factors.

Whether or not a plant is pure Neo or a hybrid does matter for registration purposes. Neither the Japanese nor Korean Neo associations will register a hybrid, and unregistered plants will generally be limited to the peripheral judging categories with the main judging limited to registered varieties.

The issue is more that among Neo growers, the precise genetic identity of a hybrid isn't considered as important as it is to western tradition orchid growers. Hybrids are basically considered novelties, and yeah, for those, form and appearance is definitely more important than the precise genetic identity.

As a side note: Some people insist that breeders purposefully keep the parentage secret, but from my conversations with breeders, yeah there are some that do keep it secret, but most simply just don't care. Okheon at Barampung also told me that because the concentration on breeding Neos, including their hybrids, has a heavy emphasis on searching for rare mutations rather than simple genetic mixing, even if you knew the parentage of a particular exceptional plant, the chances that you'd be able to recreate the same result is one in a million

[Ray]

Excellent explanation, as usual.

Thanks.

[WaterWitchin]

I've never grown a Neo until quite recently... was gifted a start by a friend. The prices are beyond my reach for the most part. That Tosashinko... Wow. I'm in love. It is absolutely exquisite.

Okay, off topic for a moment, but still semi-relevant...All this discussion about the difference between the sought after characteristics of the Japanese grower vs. the western grower reminds me of koi. I sold a ton of them at the store prior to retirement. I never knew much about koi, other than they were a necessary part of the retail water garden business.

I had a list of folks who always wanted to be called whenever a new shipment came in. On that list were a couple of Japanese guys from a large city nearby. The others on the list were just steady customers looking for something new and pretty. I always called the two Japanese guys first, just handed them the nets, and stood back to listen.

They were looking for something completely different than the western eye. And really knew their koi lingo. It was fascinating to listen to them banter. Especially about the butterfly vs. traditional koi we always brought in. What a delight it was to have them in my store.

[Ray]

There are fanatics in every field....

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by WaterWitchin

Okay, off topic for a moment, but still semi-relevant...All this discussion about the difference between the sought after characteristics of the Japanese grower vs. the western grower reminds me of koi. I sold a ton of them at the store prior to retirement. I never knew much about koi, other than they were a necessary part of the retail water garden business.

I had a list of folks who always wanted to be called whenever a new shipment came in. On that list were a couple of Japanese guys from a large city nearby. The others on the list were just steady customers looking for something new and pretty. I always called the two Japanese guys first, just handed them the nets, and stood back to listen.

They were looking for something completely different than the western eye. And really knew their koi lingo. It was fascinating to listen to them banter. Especially about the butterfly vs. traditional koi we always brought in. What a delight it was to have them in my store.

Yes! While I'm by no means super familiar with them, what little I have read about Koi appreciation in Japan, I've seen lots of similarities and reflections of habits and practices to Neo appreciation.

[K-Sci]

Hi Ray!
I received the product you sent. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Ray

I don’t think that there is much distinction between species and hybrids in the neo world. Form and appearance are the important factors.

I agree. It might be tempting to use registration as a counterexample, but I think there are four primary reasons hybrids are not allowed to register:

1) There is no way to draw a well-defined line defining what is allowed and what is out of bounds if hybrids could be registered.

2) The Japanese value the entire Neofinetia plant and consider it very important to grow them well. Allowing hybrids could result in an all-out focused effort to create colored hybrids giving little attention to other characteristics.

3) Tradition

4) See number 3.

K-Sci

---------- Post added at 07:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Hakumin

While the other varieties you In terms of yellow flowered neos, pure neos with yellow flowers will only have a very pale, fleetingly yellow color.

It is ironic, IMO, that the yellow seen in variegated Nefinetia (species) leaves is darker that any of the species flowers.
K-Sci