Neof. Mebina

[Shoreguy]

I learned of Neof. Mebina from the photo in Barampung's website, found in a semi obscure place. But using its search bar, none were available. I kept at it, searching every few days until after a few months, two popped up but it was summer and too hot to safely order as I don't trust cold packs from experience. So I waited apprehensively for the cooler weather of Fall hoping they wouldn't both be sold.
Fortunately one remained and I just received it, now potted by me.
Can anyone give me info as to ancestry, when, and where created?

If I bloom it, I will post a picture on this thread.

[Hakumin]

According to the Korean association profile, Mebina is a short leafed selfed seedling mutation of Oshukubai, which is in turn a selfed seedling mutation of Tenkobai. It says that it was discovered around 2011.

[Shoreguy]

Thank you.

---------- Post added at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

Hakumin,

I was not expecting this if Tenkobai is registered and suspected it was a hybrid especially do to the shape of the tepals and lip.

Is Tenkobai registered? If it is, could it be that in its VERY distant past that Tenkobai had a
non neof. ancestor that somehow manifested itself during the two mutations involved in the formation of Mebina?

I know you are adamant about the rigorous effort before a Neofinetia is registered but an event that occurred 50,000 years or so ago, who knows? Not trying to be argumentative, but this plant seems too strange (and I like its uniqueness).

[camille1585]

I know zero so can't reply to your questions, but I wanted to say that your patience has paid off, that looks like a very beautiful Neo! A great addition to your collection.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

Is Tenkobai registered?

No

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

I was not expecting this if Tenkobai is registered and suspected it was a hybrid especially do to the shape of the tepals and lip.

...could it be that in its VERY distant past that Tenkobai had a non neof. ancestor that somehow manifested itself during the two mutations involved in the formation of Mebina?

While I personally have no strong stance either way, there is some minor suspicion around that Tenkobai might be a hybrid, although most authoritative sources state that it was found wild on the Amami Islands.

More so than the flower shape, the way it produces its pigmentation is the most suspicious trait. The flower shape isn't so strange and is closely associated with mutations that cause short stocky leaves. The same shape has arisen from numerous other Neo lineages, many of which cannot reasonably be thought to be a hybrid, and it can even be temporarily induced chemically in a standard Neo using certain hormone blockers.

Also, let me know if you have seen one, but I have never seen a fully documented neo hybrid with this flower shape where the shape wasn't already present in the Neo parent.

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

I know you are adamant about the rigorous effort before a Neofinetia is registered but an event that occurred 50,000 years or so ago, who knows? Not trying to be argumentative, but this plant seems too strange (and I like its uniqueness).

Are you implying that mutations cannot happen without the intrusion of genes from another species? I ask because by that logic, the theory of evolution would not work.

Strangeness is hardly significant evidence for hybridization. There are plenty of common mutations in many different species that result in extraordinarily strange individuals without the need for introducing those genes by hybridization. For example, while it was historically seen to be extremely strange, can you say that that strangeness is evidence that the gene causing hypertrichosis was originally introduced to those individuals by past hybridization between human and another species?

Maybe it's best to think of Neos outside of the perspective of western orchid horticulture, but with the mindset of other plant species known for their mutations. Western style orchid horticulture tends to shun most mutations as undesirable and doesn't bother to research them while other horticultural circles often celebrate these types of mutations. There is much more extensive research done on mutations of those species such as Hostas. It might be best to read up on the mutations and mutagenesis of those species as an analogue to those found among Neos.

[Shoreguy]

I have always felt that many but not all mutations really were from the emergence of traits from distant ancestors unrelated but sexually compatible to the predominant organism (plant or animal).

I am not a geneticist nor do I play one on TV.

[Hakumin]

Originally Posted by Shoreguy

I have always felt that many but not all mutations really were from the emergence of traits from distant ancestors unrelated but sexually compatible to the predominant organism (plant or animal).

I am not a geneticist nor do I play one on TV.

That's not how mutations work. A trait that can be traced back to genetic mixing by even a distant hybridization event is not a mutation.

[Shoreguy]

Originally Posted by Hakumin

That's not how mutations work. A trait that can be traced back to genetic mixing by even a distant hybridization event is not a mutation.

I was not aware of that. But if it cannot be traced back, such organisms would frequently be viewed incorrectly as mutations.

This might be the case with Mebina, actually a hybrid, and not a mutation if Tenkobai is as some suspect a hybrid.

Actually I really don't care what it is, my primary concern is growing it to maturity and flowering it.