Problem with Neof. Seiounishiki

[Shoreguy]

Have had plant for several years. Growth in foreground has produced perfect Genpei leaves (half green, half yellow) throughout until it formed a leaf with only thin green margin, followed by a ghost leaf with suffusion of green.

Is the growth doomed with this behavior, or can it snap out of it? The plant has two other smaller growths in back, a small Genpei, and a ghost sandwiched between.

[Orchid_Tapestry]

I'm partial to the shima varieties, And the more variegated and lighter the better. I used to love those ghost growth's, but found them to sometimes be particularly weak and troublesome to the rest of the plant.

What I've done with good success (so far anyway) is use blue lighting over them. I've found these to work perfectly. You just have to really watch, because it dries them out quicker and can and will burn them if too close or left on two many hours a day.

I love these lights. They are cheap, easy to clip anywhere, and seem to be well constructed. I just use the mostly blue light feature, on neo's with very light (ghostly) growth. For no more than 6 hrs a day.
https://www.amazon.com/Abbicen-Flexi...ateway&sr=8-12

[Shoreguy]

I grow under natural sunlight.

[Orchid_Tapestry]

It was just a suggestion. You don't have to use lights all the time just during troubled times if it helps.

Your Seiou Nishiki appears to be healthy and remarkably growing upright as if under lights. You must have great natural light. My window grown orchids grow toward the light.

[Shoreguy]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Tapestry

You must have great natural light.

I do, except during cloudy periods but I don't want to bother with artificial light.

I'm sure in nature they have to contend at times with less than ideal conditions.

[Neodex]

Beautiful plant you have there.

Ghost growths are a bit of a let down for me, and I've had this not only with shima types but with fukurin types as well. My Nishidemiyako made a manazuru growth some years ago and each successive leaf had less green until it was totally without green. This growth died back one year and then resumed growth with a bit more green, but it seems the same thing is happening all over again and I'm considering cutting it off.

Here is my thinking on this, and I should stress that I'm not an expert. The pattern of variegation produced in both new leaves and new growths is laid down in the meristem. Imagine taking a ball of green and a ball of yellow kids modelling clay/putty and pressing these together and rolling this out into a long thin cylinder, one side green, the other yellow. Hold this vertically with either the green or the yellow facing you, then take a knife and make a series of shallow incisions to the left side, alternating with the same on the right side, each time pulling the clay down into little flaps. So you have something resembling the pattern in your plant if the little flaps were to grow out and form leaves. But the meristem is growing upwards with the plant all the time. Now imagine that you can influence the meristem growth so that the yellow grows more than the green side. As it grows upwards it becomes more and more yellow.

I'm a windowsill grower, and I notice that new growths mostly come from that side of the stem/axis that gets the most light. With your plant the new growths have come from the yellow side ... is this side getting more of the direct light? If so, you may want to flip the plant the other way around so that the green side of the axis gets more light.
It might be that the expansion/growth of the meristem in your plant has favoured the yellow side at the expense of the green side.

I read somewhere that with some shima types, like Kinkounishiki for example, the Japanese value plants with a high density of fine stripes. Whether this is true, or whether this applies to other varieties or not I don't know ? However, a high density of fine stripes reflects a more finely detailed and complex chimeric pattern in the meristem. It also means a greater chance of producing a longer succession of variegated growths before reaching an end. In the west we like the bold patterns, like the Genpei leaves of your plant. The problem is this pattern most likely reflects a less complex meristem pattern, meaning you have a greater chance of either all-green or all-yellow new growths. Of course the degree to how much this is important depends a lot on specific varieties and how stable their variegation is. When I bought my Kinkounishiki from a US supplier, the bolder striped plants where all much more expensive, the cheaper one that I bought was described accurately as having lots of fine striping on mostly green leaves. This plant has grown out lots of bolder variegated growths over the years, one green growth and one mostly yellow growth. The point is that some of the new growths still have fine striping. A good density of fine stripes is a good choice for those with patience, particularly for those who might want to sell off future divisions with increased bold striping.

I should also point out that variegation can have a hidden depth in terms of complexity. As I said my Kinkounishiki produced an "all-green" growth. This green growth has in turn produced four green new growths, but it has since started showing a few fine yellow stripes in it's newer leaves that were not there on the older leaves, and indeed one of the green daughter growths has also started showing a few fine yellow stripes. There are explanations for how this happens but it involves looking into the details of chloroplast inheritance which is a bit geeky and I've gone on too long already. Also seedlings of shima types don't always show variegation in the first several leaves and sometimes only in secondary growths. Given so few seedlings of shima types produce variegation at all, the additional problem that it can take time for the variegation to show up, just adds to the hassle of seed propagation of these types.

[Shoreguy]

Neodex,

Thank you for your thoughts.

I am an indoor grower also. I had been growing this plant with the green side facing the window because I felt the yellow side was more vulnerable to sun damage.

Currently I have it reversed. I will probably turn it around to the way it was originally..

[hinotori2772]

From what I've read in Japan plants with genpei variegation are considered low quality and are generally undesirable since they can't reproduce this variegation in the new growths - the growths that come from the green side will tend to be all green whereas the growths that come from the other side will tend to ghost... you can, of course, also get them to produce proper shima offsprings... but still...
Now I see that there is also another threat - the genpei growth itself to become all green or to ghost out. I have no experience in this field but I think it's also quite possible that next pair of leaves will shift the balance towards green again.

[Shoreguy]

Thanks for the information. It is a real frustrating plant and if it continues to make me unhappy, I will garbage it or give it away.

Post script:

Being an indoor grower with limited space, I got rid of the plant since it really was not worth the time to care for it and the space could be used for a new addition.

[skhan]

I guess I am more of a ``neo collector'', in contrast to being a ``fukiran collector'', so any neo that grows naturally is beautiful to me . I liked your Seiounishiki as well as all the fascinating info. in this thread.

I have been thinking of transplanting my 30+ neos from (very expensive and high maintenance) spagh. moss media to something else; do you mind telling me a bit more about the media you are using there? Are they orchiata barks? What size? How often do you need to water? Thanks!