Neo First Timer - Page 2 - Orchid Board

Stella1979 · #11 05-22-2019, 07:08 PM

Edited: Duplicate

Oops! Didn't think this message posted and wrote it again below.

u bada · #12 05-22-2019, 11:38 PM

shoreguy, got it yes, you are correct, sorry guys I didn't read the entire thread carefully, potting is the aim here for this neo...

Shoreguy is the one to talk to about potting in bark, as I've killed quite a few things in bark in pots, bark just stays too wet with me and yet too dry up top. I will say though that bark mix with bigger strands of tree fern does do something better than perlite, etc.

Do want to throw some things at you, notes if you will, given my personal experiences and discussions with others:

-Vandas, like many orchids, need time to adjust to different conditions. When talking to a grower near me about a ascofinetia I was getting from her she mentioned something interesting that when she gets vandaceous grown in baskets in places like thailand the roots are usually plentiful yet skinnier and then when she gets them (she has a gh but more like a outdoor overhang type grow area) they start to develop thicker fatter roots that are whiter. And I saw the differences.

-So if you change to pot likewise new roots will have to adapt to a pot and media. So either way if conditions are that different in your area from growers area than the flowers may or may not keep and the plant will have to adapt.

-I've grown a couple neos other vanda types outside in my dryer climate mounted and basket with no media. It's really too dry to do that but the ones that succeeded did best with frequent sprayings throughout day on dryer days. I actually found soakings to be detrimental. I know a lot of people do soakings but weirdly I would get too much rot. In general now I don't soak at all and just spray mounted things, even potted things, and have much better success. Bottom line I don't think longer soakings compensate for longer periods of dry, I think orchids really most easily grow in gh settings, and frequent waterings in more sheltered situations is a better route to take.

-I still feel like keeping it in a basket with ample air flow to roots is best way to go. I have a friend who grows them that way the amount of roots and growth is phenomenal. He leaves close to beach where it is still dryer most likely than your climate. He does spray them and many of his down a couple times a day some days. Again, they will need to adapt, but with tough as they are I don't think you should overthink it too much.

Grown in basket or in a pot it'll adapt, it just might take some time and since it's already in the basket I feel like that's less of a set back.

Stella1979 · #13 05-23-2019, 10:52 AM

Thank you both very much. I appreciate both approaches. What I should do and what I want to do will not always be the same thing, of course, but whether that is the case here remains to be seen. I suppose I should explain myself...

My current collection started only about a year and a half ago but this is not my first foray into orchid keeping. Many years ago, having already done well with Phals, I moved on to Dens and did pretty good there too, and then... well then I made a stupid move.

I bought a plant which at that time, was really my dream 'chid. I don't recall its title but it was a sunset-colored Crownfox vanda. I watered it every morning by soaking the root system in a bucket for 10-15 minutes. Still, she started suffering from what looked like dehydration. In getting advice from the nursery, I knew I was providing sufficient lighting and I followed their watering and feeding schedule. Still, she always looked dry and continued going downhill until I just knew I couldn't save her. Couldn't do a second watering in the middle of the day because I had a 10 hour work day then... and I also feared watering at night or too close to sundown. I became convinced that the less humid and much windier environment she had on that porch was the issue.

Then, like now, I will not mount an orchid in the yard because I am not yet in my forever home.

Since I am now a better grower with a larger and more successful collection than before, I thought I would take a chance on certain vandaceous species... that being a Rhy. gigantea who demands less light and less water than most, and now the Neo... with the thinking that she would be easier precisely because she could be potted.

Please don't yell at me

but... I came across Dr. Uthus advice the very afternoon of bringing the Neo home. I should have done good research before bringing her home and please believe me that I know how important research is. I am also a marine aquarist with many corals thriving under my care. Anyway, my initial thinking with the Neo was that the plant does grow well here... very well in a humid greenhouse but I could pot it if hydration was an issue.

So sorry this is getting so long. Trying to wrap it up.

Since bringing the Neo home I have watered every morning with a 20 minute root soak. At the first watering I noticed that 3 roots in the mass didn't plump or green up but 3 dead roots among that mass did not concern me. She also has one or two leaves (on a total of 9 fans) with leaf tip die back. It's only on one fan and I assumed that side of the plant received too much light.

As of this morning, there are 6 dead roots.

It's not only less humid in my growing space, it's also windy as I am less than a mile from the coast. I suppose I could have done a number of things wrong but...

She's on the same watering schedule as she was at the nursery and she is even receiving the same fertilizer they use. They feed weakly weekly but I feed very weakly for 3 waterings in a row with a plain water rinse every fourth. I do not think I am burning her with salts, nor starving her.

Her roots are quite dry by early afternoon so I have committed to twice daily waterings, but I cannot keep this up for very long. By August I will be back to a busier schedule and will not be able to water in the afternoons. August might mean the approach of cooler weather and cloudier skies for some but for me, it's still the dead of summer and will remain hot and breezy until... oh, about Christmas time. Fall arrives here around the end of the year and winter is over by March.

Anyway, yes, good data supports growing them bare-rooted here, but I've not done well with basketed bare root in the past, cannot/will not mount her in the yard, my growing environment is less humid and windier than a greenhouse, my schedule will not always support multiple waterings per day, and I already appear to be losing roots, quite possibly to dehydration.

So, knowing all this... might it be wise for a person in my situation to pot the Neo?

She's opening blooms!

Stella1979 · #14 05-23-2019, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u bada

shoreguy, got it yes, you are correct, sorry guys I didn't read the entire thread carefully, potting is the aim here for this neo...

Shoreguy is the one to talk to about potting in bark, as I've killed quite a few things in bark in pots, bark just stays too wet with me and yet too dry up top. I will say though that bark mix with bigger strands of tree fern does do something better than perlite, etc.

Do want to throw some things at you, notes if you will, given my personal experiences and discussions with others:

-Vandas, like many orchids, need time to adjust to different conditions. When talking to a grower near me about a ascofinetia I was getting from her she mentioned something interesting that when she gets vandaceous grown in baskets in places like thailand the roots are usually plentiful yet skinnier and then when she gets them (she has a gh but more like a outdoor overhang type grow area) they start to develop thicker fatter roots that are whiter. And I saw the differences.

-So if you change to pot likewise new roots will have to adapt to a pot and media. So either way if conditions are that different in your area from growers area than the flowers may or may not keep and the plant will have to adapt.

-I've grown a couple neos other vanda types outside in my dryer climate mounted and basket with no media. It's really too dry to do that but the ones that succeeded did best with frequent sprayings throughout day on dryer days. I actually found soakings to be detrimental. I know a lot of people do soakings but weirdly I would get too much rot. In general now I don't soak at all and just spray mounted things, even potted things, and have much better success. Bottom line I don't think longer soakings compensate for longer periods of dry, I think orchids really most easily grow in gh settings, and frequent waterings in more sheltered situations is a better route to take.

-I still feel like keeping it in a basket with ample air flow to roots is best way to go. I have a friend who grows them that way the amount of roots and growth is phenomenal. He leaves close to beach where it is still dryer most likely than your climate. He does spray them and many of his down a couple times a day some days. Again, they will need to adapt, but with tough as they are I don't think you should overthink it too much.

Grown in basket or in a pot it'll adapt, it just might take some time and since it's already in the basket I feel like that's less of a set back.

Ahhh, thank you again.

I did not see this message before beginning my last reply. ALL information is most welcome.

Found long stranded shredded tree fern at Kelley's Korner and it is on the way but I am still committed to keeping the neo bare rooted for the time being, at least while she blooms.

I hadn't thought about soakings vs. mistings in the way you've presented it so again, thank you. I am still very much a newb at all this. The wheels are turning though.

Hubs is a techy guy highly skilled in electrical work. He just finished making us a DIY misting system that works just like a Mist King at less than half the Mist King's retail price. This unit is on a tropical, live planted terrarium. Why don't I just put the neo is there? Well, it's a lizard tank!

However, I'm sure we could probably set up a similar unit for the 'chids. Just have to plan for weatherproofing it but maybe that won't be so hard.

u bada · #15 05-23-2019, 01:16 PM

So cool you're a marine aquarist! Just been sticking to fresh water which is tricky enough lol

Back to neos...

I've grown a LOT of different plants and certainly a lot of orchids. I basically have stuck to neos for last couple years because they're truly forgiving and straightforward when it comes to care. Because they've been cultivated in Japan and world at large for so long too means they are more than amendable to human care and adaptable to various situations. So think it was a great rewarding choice, and think you don't need to overthink care for this one

Just remember that if it's not quite happy initially, it may just be adjusting- ie losing a root here and there, leaf here and there, etc.

that said, keeping it shadier than you think is better way to go. People think because they're vandas they need high light, but it's not the case, as dr uthus mentions. I've burned some in the beginning thinking that. They really do quite nicely in medium to lower light.

I'm also thinking if you keep in the basket, some big bark or charcoal chunks can definitely help waterings last a bit longer.

Personally I grow mine in the traditional moss ball method. In general my conditions are dryer than not and that extra even moisture has come a long way for me, but I think your conditions are more humid than you think. They are definitely adaptable to potted culture, and so if you do go that route, I'd suggest just getting a larger plastic pot that the whole basket can fit in and then just place inside and put tree fern and large bark in with it, but definitely keep outside with good air flow and water less than you'd think until it adapts to that.

Also, knowing it's growth cycle is good. They don't do much in winter and should be kept on dryer side. If you keep outside, they tend to appreciate the cooler dryer winter and flower better in spring, but keep as dry as possible. Once spring hits they start to make new roots and start to form flower spikes. They actually flower more in late June and July with errant spikes earlier or later depending, forming those spikes in fall after growing season. Once they start full throttle growing in June, earlier sometimes if you grow inside, they get very heavy rains and you can water a fair amount to develop their root system and more leaves. Point being, they have their time when they grow and when they don't do all that much. Right now it might lose roots but you have quite a few months to catch up as you improve culture with your new conditions for it.