Aerangis citrata not happy! - Orchid Board

JennS · #1 10-17-2008, 01:49 PM

Hello

I have recently added an Aerangis citrata to my collection. I got it about a month ago. It looked gorgeous then...glossy green leaves, looked like a decent potting medium, etc. So, I checked on the board and after a couple inquiries I decided to mount it. The pot it came in was a little square plastic black pot and the medium seemed to be all small pieces of charcoal and a little perlite.

So, I had a cork bark mount ready and went for it. In the process the very tip leaf, the newest leaf, broke off. It appeared to have some rot going on which made the leaf fall off, not just me being clumsy. So, last night I checked on it (it was moved to a new shadier location too) and the next newest leaf also appeared rotted and fell off. The next leaf also appears to have a little rot on the stem and I didn't know if I should remove it or not. The plant came to me with 9 leaves. Now it has 7

and they are being lost from the new growth, not the base. I can imagine it might have had a bit of water left in the crown overnight due to sprinklers, but i have moved it since, so that shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I will take some pics today after work, but it was too dark last night. Should I remove the next leaf that looks possibly infected? Should i wait and see? Can the plant even grow more leaves since the new growth is being lost? Will it be able to survive? I am completely new to these guys, so any advice, comments, thoughts, opinions, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Ross · #2 10-17-2008, 02:34 PM

See my response to your question in Calvin's thread. In addition, a picture really would help. I am presuming you removed the medium from around the roots when you mounted it? If so, did you use some sphagnum? Angraecoides like this one need to be kept pretty moist and have lots of air movement. While they need water, they will rot easily if the water stands in the crowns for long.

JennS · #3 10-17-2008, 02:45 PM

I will definitely take a picture today. I did save the old leaf to take a picture of too, so I will post those tomorrow. I just thought I would get the post going in the meantime...

Yes, I removed all of the medium. This was only the 4th or 5th mount I did and the roots are much stranger than the others, so I was at a bit of a loss. I did use spag over the roots and a little under the roots where there were lots of valleys. I figured that would help up the humidity anyway.

JennS · #4 10-17-2008, 02:50 PM

"I'm not Calvin, but my citrata is kept in orchidarium at low to medium light, misted every 4 hours for 5 seconds and fertilized every other day. It currently has 3 spikes developing and is approx 3 times the size it was when I got it almost 2 years ago. Hope this helps"

Ross, I took the above from the other post and figured it would be easier to respond here.

What does low to medium light mean? Can you give me an example of other genus that respond well at a similar light level? Ie. phals, paphs, etc.? I have it growing outdoors and it gets bright, but never direct light. The area is pretty high humidity as I can figure since little mushrooms love to grow around there. Also, all my vandas and the like are happy, but not this guy.

I also just mounted it about a week ago, so could that be affecting it?

When your plant is misted does the whole thing get hit? I can't mist that much every day because I am not home and don't have automatic misters, but if I water it every morning (if it's dry) or mist it if it's not, would that be comparable? It is still quite warm here....it was in the high 60s this morning and the normal daytime temps are about 80.

Ross · #5 10-17-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennS

Yes, I removed all of the medium. This was only the 4th or 5th mount I did and the roots are much stranger than the others, so I was at a bit of a loss. I did use spag over the roots and a little under the roots where there were lots of valleys. I figured that would help up the humidity anyway.

Perhaps the reason I get such great response (most of the time) is the constant humidity and constant breeze?

Ross · #6 10-17-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennS

What does low to medium light mean? Can you give me an example of other genus that respond well at a similar light level? Ie. phals, paphs, etc.? I have it growing outdoors and it gets bright, but never direct light. The area is pretty high humidity as I can figure since little mushrooms love to grow around there. Also, all my vandas and the like are happy, but not this guy.

I also just mounted it about a week ago, so could that be affecting it?

When your plant is misted does the whole thing get hit? I can't mist that much every day because I am not home and don't have automatic misters, but if I water it every morning (if it's dry) or mist it if it's not, would that be comparable? It is still quite warm here....it was in the high 60s this morning and the normal daytime temps are about 80.

I'll try to respond to those questions, but I find it hard to compare as I have no experience growing under your conditions.

"Low to medium" light is relative to my conditions. I am currently providing approx 800-1000 Foot-candles. This is much less than I give my Paphs, Phals and Masdies. They get 2000+ foot-candles. As for similar species, I can only list the Angraecoides I have at the same level, so I doubt that would help you at this point.

As for shock of mounting, that might be a reason, but my plants don't typically show a shock from remounting. They typically just come into the house, get remounted or repotted, sometimes stay on the original mount or in the original pot, and then go into either the tank or the grow window, depending on the kind of plant. What does cause a shock, big time, is when I introduce my cultural technique to a plant not likeing that. An example is Dracs. They typically don't like a lot of fertilizer but want to stay wet with pure water (distilled or RO). I've nearly killed plants (not quite) by applying fertilizer when they didn't want it.

For citrata, I don't think this is the problem. I'm wondering if it wasn't affected prior to you getting it? You said (I think) you just got it. You also said the center has rotting leaves. This doesn't normally happen overnight, but could be a sign of poor culture before you got it. Since you mounted it, the crown faces horizontal or downward? Then it will drain OK. Even so, as long as the roots and at least part of the leaves remain viable, watch for a new growth or two at the base. New leaves will no longer come from the center, but the plant may respond by putting out new growths. It needs to be fairly mature before it will flower, however. You should probably treat with both Physan 20 and Thiomyl to try and control the crown rot before it gets so bad it kills the plant.

calvin_orchidL · #7 10-17-2008, 04:51 PM

Hi Jenn....sorry I can't help you out with that one but hope it recovers

I do recall that I have had something similar happen to my aerangis punctata, in which the newest leaf actually yellowed and fell off (a few days after I got it home from the green house) Just to echo Ross, in my (limited and by no means authoritative) experience with vandaceous plants, loss of new leaves at the crown is likely rot of some sort, whether it be fungal or bacterial. Light can't really do that unless it's obvious burning (and even if leaves are burned, they need to be burned REAL bad for the plant to make the decision of dropping it), and fertilizer would affect all the leaves...humidity and other stress may result in dropping of lower leaves, but rarely upper ones.

I doused mine with hydrogen peroxide. Since then, a side growth has sprouted new leaves and I believe will become the dominant growth, but the main crown has not yet sprouted new leaves. I think I'd have to agree with Ross that the chances of new ones coming from there are slim (although I've seen it happen with phals)....good luck!!

P.S: I bought a seedling of another clone of Ang. kirkii from a lady at our society who grows them in bark chips with phal conditions, and gets amazing masses of blooms. Kirkii is known to be one of the more finicky angs, and I've had experienced growers say that their leaves cannot get wet, roots *MUST* have air movement, etc...and here's this lady, growing masses of them (she's put many on sale at our OS sales table) in bark! Just goes to show that different things work for different people, and there's no end-all to orchid growing. While mounting may be preferable if you have the conditions (ie an orchidarium/greenhouse), the plant might just be perfectly happy in it's pot. Just my opinion

Ross · #8 10-17-2008, 06:15 PM

Calvin, just to chime in here, your "lady" at the club is not far off. Angraecoides like high humidity, constant moisture and maybe medium to high light. Sounds like her conditions provide exactly that! Just because you purchase (or aquire) one of these doesn't guarantee yours will thrive or even survive though. You must provide the same conditions. This was my original point.

JennS · #9 10-17-2008, 06:29 PM

Ok, well my first thought is that I am really worried about this plant! It definitely lost those two leaves from rot in my personal opinion. They were both blackened at the base where they had been attached to the plant. The next leaf that would be considered the newest after losing those two also has a little blackness to it so I didn't know if I should remove it so it doesn't risk spreading or not. I think removing it is the only option to save the plant though.

When I mounted it, I did angle it downward and to the side a bit to make sure it drained. I did notice water sitting in the crown before I mounted it becaues it was getting hit be the sprinklers (i think). Anyway, I believe I caused the rot, and not the previous owner although he didn't know much about it when I asked. He just told me to keep it in shade and moist, but not wet.

I was unsure if I could apply the Physan 20 becuase the label says, apply anytime disease other than rot is present. So, I thought I shouldn't apply if rot was evident? Is that correct or can I apply anyway?

Last, am I reading correctly that it could produce a side growth? Would this be considered a basal keiki or just a growth? I thought their growth pattern was similar to vandas that they went straight up or would make a keiki if not growing upwards. In that thought I wasn't sure if it could produce new leaves or not like a Phal or keikis like a vanda. I guess i will have to wait and see...

Anyway, my best conclusion is to remove the bad leaf left on the plant. Take pictures and post for more comments. Keep moist, but not wet and high humidity. And I guess I could do a dousing in Hydrogen peroxide and possibly apply Physan tomorrow? I won't do the Physan yet, but will wait to hear more...

Thanks for all of your help so far. i will post the pics as soon as possible!

Ross · #10 10-17-2008, 06:48 PM

Get some Thiomyl into the plant! That's a strong recommendation. Physan will help, but I've flat out cured rot with Thiomyl and swear by it. Yes sprinklers may have caused this as could elements in the water. Is your sprinkler water recycled water?

Basil sprouts will not be keikis in Angraecoides. They will be new shoots. Don't try to seperate them.